SWAPA Update

[DonVerita]

I think I just heard the sound of a collective "OH FUUUUUU(K!!!!" coming from the AT pilot group.

Then you heard wrong.

Get your ears checked. You wouldn't want to miss hearing yourself talking into a stuck mike.

 

[Bake]

OH Don, glass houses my friend. Why do you hate?

 

[waveflyer]

Nope. I hate to break it to you, but you aren't scaring anyone.

Please, you've been scared your whole life.

I think both sides would be well served to give up this argument and just work on getting you laid.

 

[madjack]

Though I think this letter is open to interpretation, I wonder why the AAI pilots feel that getting our CBA advances is NOT worth seniority to them...or do you really expect to get the pay AND the seniority because M/B has given you a sense of entitlement...

Also which group was the most upset...the "staped at AAI CP pay" 650 or the junior CPs who were seat protected and paid until 2020??

 

[canyonblue]

Blah blah blah blahblahblah, blah blah blah blah blahblah blah Blah blah blah blahblahblah, blah blah blah blah blahblah blah Blah blah blah blahblahblah, blah blah blah blah blahblah blah

More noise from the SWA interview reject. Obviously the process works. Pretty pathetic, your obvious jealousy toward Southwest, it really shows here. Sorry you are stuck at an airline that nobody east of Montana ever heard of, giving you a severe complex. Get over it, we are NEVER buying Alaska, unless it's the State.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill,

Not sure why you would think we care what outsiders think of us. Our culture is internal to our company, our customers, and our communities. It does not cross over to our competition. I'll be a professional, I won't whine at the tower if Delta 268 gets to be number one, and I'll try to be better on the radio. But my FAMILY comes first. If you view me as a sky nazi, I don't really care. Clear as mud?

Crystal....

But What does that have to do with the AAI MEC turning down your well slanted seniority proposal....

And another laughable moment is you thinking your "culture" is at stake...maybe the CULT of GK isn't for eveybody.

Good Luck with the Family.....

 

[SkiFishFly]

madjack:

I think it was mostly the junior capts who were faced with a choice of being the bottom reserve ca's for 10 yrs or choosing to downgrade for QOL only to have that seat go to a SWA FO. Most felt that the terms would force a lot of our CAs to choose to downgrade. It seems the SWAPA guys were completely ignoring the subsequent SWA FO upgrades which were sure to happen.
Additionally, the SIA language was weak. Seemed we would be voting away a lot of very good protections for some very weak protections.
Over here the conversation was not about the money - pay rates change. Seniority stays with you forever.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

madjack:

I think it was mostly the junior capts who were faced with a choice of being the bottom reserve ca's for 10 yrs or choosing to downgrade for QOL only to have that seat go to a SWA FO. Most felt that the terms would force a lot of our CAs to choose to downgrade. It seems the SWAPA guys were completely ignoring the subsequent SWA FO upgrades which were sure to happen.
Additionally, the SIA language was weak. Seemed we would be voting away a lot of very good protections for some very weak protections.
Over here the conversation was not about the money - pay rates change. Seniority stays with you forever.

Nevermind that the SWA FO was senior right? You might end up with slightly increased seniority, but man is it going to cost you.

 

[madjack]

"Over here the conversation was not about the money - pay rates change. Seniority stays with you forever."

SWA pilots are concerned about our seniority also...as has been pointed out many times, it is easy to say the conversation is not about money, when you know you will be ultimately operating under the SWA CBA...On both sides the conversation will always be about maximizing personal gains...for you the monetary windfall was a given and therefore there was no need to bring it up...it is good to be the acquired airline isn't it??

 

[SkiFishFly]

"Over here the conversation was not about the money - pay rates change. Seniority stays with you forever."

SWA pilots are concerned about our seniority also...as has been pointed out many times, it is easy to say the conversation is not about money, when you know you will be ultimately operating under the SWA CBA...On both sides the conversation will always be about maximizing personal gains...for you the monetary windfall was a given and therefore there was no need to bring it up...it is good to be the acquired airline isn't it??

How do we reconcile these concerns? That is the hard part about this. Surely there is another way to approach this that addresses both parties concerns.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Nevermind that the SWA FO was senior right? You might end up with slightly increased seniority, but man is it going to cost you.

Do you mean senior by DOH?

 

[madjack]

"That is the hard part about this. Surely there is another way to approach this that addresses both parties concerns."

The positions have hardened... I know that our management wanted a negotiated SLI, the MC/MEC disconnect has exacerbated those plans

 

[madjack]

"Do you mean senior by DOH"

I am a 10 year SWA FO...under the AIP I would have been pulling gear for a 2005-6 AAI CP...we all had our cross to bear in the AIP...at least the AAI pilots were getting a billion or two out of the deal (2 mil individually)...you want the money and seniority, I get it, you feel entitled to this because of M/B...

 

[Fubijaakr]

More noise from the SWA interview reject. Obviously the process works. Pretty pathetic, your obvious jealousy toward Southwest, it really shows here. .

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."

Second, until this came down I had plenty of respect for SWA guys. Know a bunch of them from the Navy, in fact.

It was just YOUR disgusting arrogance and behavior as a group on this forum that brought me into the fray.

Check the mirror.

But What does that have to do with the AAI MEC turning down your well slanted seniority proposal....

And another laughable moment is you thinking your "culture" is at stake...maybe the CULT of GK isn't for eveybody.

No kidding.

 

[redflyer65]

Madjack is right.

My how the AAI dynamics have changed over a short 18 months. They don't want to lose any realitive seniority, and they would really like the payrates, QOL, and career expectations that SWAPA brings to the table with our contract. I never thought the beaten down AAI pilots would turn so quickly.

I see mediation accomplishing nothing. Both sides are hardened and won't be willing to give...especially on the SWAPA side. I think our eyes are now wide open.

 

[Muppets]

Madjack is right.

My how the AAI dynamics have changed over a short 18 months. They don't want to lose any realitive seniority, and they would really like the payrates, QOL, and career expectations that SWAPA brings to the table with our contract. I never thought the beaten down AAI pilots would turn so quickly.

I see mediation accomplishing nothing. Both sides are hardened and won't be willing to give...especially on the SWAPA side. I think our eyes are now wide open.

Have you even been paying attention?

 

[redflyer65]

Muppet, WTF dude. I throw in a SW prospective and that's your response. Cool.

 

[learherkjay]

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."

Second, until this came down I had plenty of respect for SWA guys. Know a bunch of them from the Navy, in fact.

It was just YOUR disgusting arrogance and behavior as a group on this forum that brought me into the fray.

Check the mirror.



No kidding.

Judging an entire pilot group on the basis of several pilot's postings on an anonymous forum is the essence of showing bias and handing down judgement.

Check your mirror...no kidding!

 

[Scoot 11]

So let me get this straight. AAI pilots should just roll over and accept what the SW guys offer them? Um, OK. <confused>

 

[madjack]

AAI pilots should just roll over and accept what the SW guys offer them? Um, OK.


It was negotiated between AAI/SWA pilots...??