SWAPA Update

[Luv2BFlyin]

Nevermind that the SWA FO was senior right? You might end up with slightly increased seniority, but man is it going to cost you.

Do you mean senior by DOH?

 

[madjack]

"That is the hard part about this. Surely there is another way to approach this that addresses both parties concerns."

The positions have hardened... I know that our management wanted a negotiated SLI, the MC/MEC disconnect has exacerbated those plans

 

[madjack]

"Do you mean senior by DOH"

I am a 10 year SWA FO...under the AIP I would have been pulling gear for a 2005-6 AAI CP...we all had our cross to bear in the AIP...at least the AAI pilots were getting a billion or two out of the deal (2 mil individually)...you want the money and seniority, I get it, you feel entitled to this because of M/B...

 

[Fubijaakr]

More noise from the SWA interview reject. Obviously the process works. Pretty pathetic, your obvious jealousy toward Southwest, it really shows here. .

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."

Second, until this came down I had plenty of respect for SWA guys. Know a bunch of them from the Navy, in fact.

It was just YOUR disgusting arrogance and behavior as a group on this forum that brought me into the fray.

Check the mirror.

But What does that have to do with the AAI MEC turning down your well slanted seniority proposal....

And another laughable moment is you thinking your "culture" is at stake...maybe the CULT of GK isn't for eveybody.

No kidding.

 

[redflyer65]

Madjack is right.

My how the AAI dynamics have changed over a short 18 months. They don't want to lose any realitive seniority, and they would really like the payrates, QOL, and career expectations that SWAPA brings to the table with our contract. I never thought the beaten down AAI pilots would turn so quickly.

I see mediation accomplishing nothing. Both sides are hardened and won't be willing to give...especially on the SWAPA side. I think our eyes are now wide open.

 

[Muppets]

Madjack is right.

My how the AAI dynamics have changed over a short 18 months. They don't want to lose any realitive seniority, and they would really like the payrates, QOL, and career expectations that SWAPA brings to the table with our contract. I never thought the beaten down AAI pilots would turn so quickly.

I see mediation accomplishing nothing. Both sides are hardened and won't be willing to give...especially on the SWAPA side. I think our eyes are now wide open.

Have you even been paying attention?

 

[redflyer65]

Muppet, WTF dude. I throw in a SW prospective and that's your response. Cool.

 

[learherkjay]

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."

Second, until this came down I had plenty of respect for SWA guys. Know a bunch of them from the Navy, in fact.

It was just YOUR disgusting arrogance and behavior as a group on this forum that brought me into the fray.

Check the mirror.



No kidding.

Judging an entire pilot group on the basis of several pilot's postings on an anonymous forum is the essence of showing bias and handing down judgement.

Check your mirror...no kidding!

 

[Scoot 11]

So let me get this straight. AAI pilots should just roll over and accept what the SW guys offer them? Um, OK. <confused>

 

[madjack]

AAI pilots should just roll over and accept what the SW guys offer them? Um, OK.


It was negotiated between AAI/SWA pilots...??

 

[madjack]

AAI,

Do what you think is right for your careers...but turning down big $$ in the worst recession since the big one and the chance to have a negotiated settlement between the pilot groups took guts...i'll give you that, good luck!

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

"Do you mean senior by DOH"

I am a 10 year SWA FO...under the AIP I would have been pulling gear for a 2005-6 AAI CP...we all had our cross to bear in the AIP...at least the AAI pilots were getting a billion or two out of the deal (2 mil individually)...you want the money and seniority, I get it, you feel entitled to this because of M/B...

And as an 11 year captain, I could be waiting another 11 years from now while 2005-6 WN f/o's upgrade til I'll finally be safely off reserve (it will take 8 years to get back to 50%, 11 years to get to 40%, and 17 years to get to my current%). If I was getting 2M cash now, I'd definitely consider it. Unfortunately, only the promise of 2M spread out over the next 25 years in return for giving up that much seniority just wasn't worth it to me personally. YMMV

 

[madjack]

8 years X SWA CP pay raise = a lot of sympathy bucks...I would trade places with you in a heartbeat!! An upgrade at SWA is worth that much to me!

 

[Roomwithaview]

Jack

Give it a rest. Trying to be rational with these jokers is a waste of your time. Stop posting and torturing yourself. You're a good dude. I can't believe how patient you've been with them. Let them keep beating their chests. We're already increasing our service and reducing theirs. We'll see how much longer the jihadists control the rank and file of Airtranny.

See you out on line fellers.

 

[madjack]

RWAV,

Your right, I give up...see ya tomorrow on FI...

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

8 years X SWA CP pay raise = a lot of sympathy bucks...I would trade places with you in a heartbeat!! An upgrade at SWA is worth that much to me!

As I said, it's personal opinion. The "sympathy bucks" in addition to my current income did not justify going back on reserve with the associated lifestyle for 11 years. Come up with a fair seniority integration and there's no need for "sympathy bucks".

 

[Roomwithaview]

Luv2Bfurloughed

Unfortunately, you are not the one writing the checks. GK is. Your guys just flipped him the middle finger. He just rewarded you by cutting service for the tranny out of ATL and starting RSW service into it.

You should change your moniker to the one I posted above because only someone with the arrogance to turn down the GIFT that the AIP was must also not love to fly.

 

[Bill Nelson]

As I said, it's personal opinion. The "sympathy bucks" in addition to my current income did not justify going back on reserve with the associated lifestyle for 11 years. Come up with a fair seniority integration and there's no need for "sympathy bucks".

Don't combine flight operations and there is no need for "sympathy bucks" either because there won't be an integration.

 

[yoyoma]

As I said, it's personal opinion. The "sympathy bucks" in addition to my current income did not justify going back on reserve with the associated lifestyle for 11 years. Come up with a fair seniority integration and there's no need for "sympathy bucks".

so if you could keep your seniority, but also keep your aai contract for the next 11 years you'd be cool with that?

 

[afhercdriver]

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."


So AAI was your step to the airlines you mentioned above?

Jim

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Unfortunately, you are not the one writing the checks. GK is. Your guys just flipped him the middle finger. He just rewarded you by cutting service for the tranny out of ATL and starting RSW service into it.

You should change your moniker to the one I posted above because only someone with the arrogance to turn down the GIFT that the AIP was must also not love to fly.

I'm sure the changes to service were well in the works prior to last Thurs.

We didn't see it as a gift. Difference of opinion.

 

[madjack]

"there's no need for "sympathy bucks".

Easy to say when you know you will get our CBA...now you just want our seniority too...keep it real dude, a seniority AND pay grab by AAI pilots, hey I get it...just don't call it something else like fair and equitable...

 

[Guppy Guy]

The last few posts on this thread sum up the crux of the problem very well. Both parties see the same situation two different ways. That's OK. This is why we have a mediation and arbitration process. When this deal was announced last Sept. I talked with one of my friends at SWA. We both agreed back then that the only way to resolve the SLI would be arbitration. How many times did people post on FI, early on, that we should just skip all the interim stuff and go straight to arbitration? Legally that's not possible. But in the end we are right where most of us thought we would/should be. That's OK. A third party is the only one who can judge this without the personal biases. I, for one, am very curious to hear exactly what he/she has to say about this. Whatever the ruling is, I will accept it and move on. We will have a great airline when this is behind us.

 

[scoreboardII]

We will have a great airline when this is behind us.

Yes, WE will.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Guppy Guy

Oh if it were only that easy. Look no further than USAIR/CActii and you'll see that even those that had accepted binding arbitration as the final outcome reneged on that agreement. How's that working out for them?

Same will happen here. One side will feel they got f$cked over and it will probably be the trannies and then you will see ALPA fight to have "the Eischen Award" overturned.

Let's just be done with it already. You guys don't want to be SWA and we don't want your ALPA attitude over here. Hopefully Kelly will sell the parts of the tranny he doesn't want off to RAH or whoever the highest bidder is and the trannies that want to work for SWA can file an app and maybe you'll get preferential interviews (better than what most of us got) and then those of you that are typed in the 73 will probably get hired right away and you'll go to the bottom of the seniority list like the rest of us that WANTED to work here did. The rest can enjoy their career at Republic and the ensuing seniority battle ALPA will start over there.

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

Classy

Sorry to burst your bubble on a couple of counts. First, I never applied. SWA was LAST on my list behind all the legacies, FedEX, UPS and Airborne Express. Somehow the thought of having to buy a type rating for an interview went against my grain. I'm generally opposed to "pay for training."

Second, until this came down I had plenty of respect for SWA guys. Know a bunch of them from the Navy, in fact.

It was just YOUR disgusting arrogance and behavior as a group on this forum that brought me into the fray.

Check the mirror.

So the guy who thinks its funny to put a picture of someones unsuspecting Mom "blowing a hot dog" is now the arbitrator of what is disgusting behavior....gotta love the internet.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

"there's no need for "sympathy bucks".

Easy to say when you know you will get our CBA...now you just want our seniority too...keep it real dude, a seniority AND pay grab by AAI pilots, hey I get it...just don't call it something else like fair and equitable...

We'd love WN seniorty, but we're all smart enough to know that we can't take it, or even try to, and frankly, wouldn't want to, it wouldn't be fair. We were just trying to preserve as much of our own as possible and the attempt to buy it fell short in the eyes of the majority of this pilot group.

Don't worry, I won't call the deal fair and equitable. That's why we're not attending road shows right now .

 

[Guppy Guy]

We'll see. It's out of our control now regardless.

 

[scoreboardII]

We'll see. It's out of our control now regardless.

No, it's not. Well, it is out of your control thats for sure.

 

[zippy32]

We'll see. It's out of our control now regardless.

No, it's not. Well, it is out of your control thats for sure.

I respectfully disagree with you both. There are things that the AAI side could do to get this deal done before it spirals out of control. But I just don't think they are willing to do it.

I wish this whole thing was over right now and we could move on, but I fear it will only get worse from here.