SWAPA TA failure just cost me $1,200 per month

[Richard Gozinya]

Except in this contract, the open time was going to be a ton more flexible, the drawdown of the lance program was going to let me be a captain longer and an FO shorter, ELITT wouldn't have continued to get pounded by lances and first year FOs, so ELITT would have actually started working on me and to top it off, there was no domestic code share allowed.

Where was the problem?

Speak for yourself there Kemo Sabe! You may have pounded the ELITT and reaped the benefits of such, but there are plenty of us out there that have NEVER had the opporutunity to expore this benefit. I've been here 9 months and haven't had the pleasure of doing ANYTHING but sit reserve and take what scraps are tossed my way. Go piss on someone else's parade.

Dick

 

[whymeworry?]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

You sound just like the whining pilots I've listened when we voted down a TA in '97. Grow a pair. If you guys are unified and stay strong, you'll get everything you were asking for and then some. Voting down a TA is a GOOD thing.

120 trips per month? I think all that over-worked-ness has gotten to your brain. You'll kill yourself eventually if you keep whoring like that.

 

[xrated]

Armageddon must be near. I never though I would see the day, and when I did, I would know the end was near....Southwest pilots are arguing and there is dissention among the ranks!! Who would have thunk????

In all honesty, good luck to you all, you're our only hope!

 

[ASADFW7]

I am a SWA FO as well, so the TA was defeated, stop whinning and keep your mouth shut. It is shameful that we hired jackazzez like you at SWA.

 

[murano]

Armageddon must be near. I never though I would see the day, and when I did, I would know the end was near....Southwest pilots are arguing and there is dissention among the ranks!! Who would have thunk????

Well, keep in mind it's a 1994 contract. In the 90s and early 2000 SWA wasn't paid all that well compared to the other major airlines. Then everybody else came tumbling down and we ended up on top. We're just trying to keep the bar high for everyone else to negotiate back to.

 

[FlyinHigh737]

Regardless where you were on the vote, the day when we as pilots think we can make management decisions with regards to the companies future, is, at best naive'. We mitigate as best we can and then watch our culture vaporize. I, for one think that all the name calling on this board from my fellow pilots is non-productive. Some of the "no" voters engage with your the comments and substance, and not name calling. All this from an FO that did read the TA and still voted "yes". Support your argument and open your ears, you could be wrong, or very spot on.

 

[murano]

Regardless where you were on the vote, the day when we as pilots think we can make management decisions with regards to the companies future, is, at best naive'. We mitigate as best we can and then watch our culture vaporize. I, for one think that all the name calling on this board from my fellow pilots is non-productive. Some of the "no" voters engage with your the comments and substance, and not name calling. All this from an FO that did read the TA and still voted "yes". Support your argument and open your ears, you could be wrong, or very spot on.

What would you rather have? A contract which limits codeshare and outsourcing or "culture"? Keep in mind that most pilots that have voted no on this contract still love SWA. We just refuse to have our jobs outsourced. We refuse to take raises that are 50% lower than all other work groups. We refuse to change an open time system that is not broken. We refuse to give 100+ lances a 30% paycut. What do you think that would have done to our "culture"? I can guarantee you that if this thing would have passed by as much of a small margin as it failed, the culture would have been destroyed at a much faster pace.

 

[Beechball]

Regardless where you were on the vote, the day when we as pilots think we can make management decisions with regards to the companies future, is, at best naive'. We mitigate as best we can and then watch our culture vaporize. I, for one think that all the name calling on this board from my fellow pilots is non-productive. Some of the "no" voters engage with your the comments and substance, and not name calling. All this from an FO that did read the TA and still voted "yes". Support your argument and open your ears, you could be wrong, or very spot on.

FlyinHigh737,
From what you post as equipment that you've flown....I'm assuming this is your first airline. You flew a Diamond Katana (piston SEL) and a Beech Premier Jet.....then a 737. There's a lot of us that have flown in the airline industry before coming to SWA where we have gained a lot of insight into the inner workings of airlines. You may have read the whole TA, which is awesome and thank you, but there are issues that in the TA that are common to carriers that are out there now.

We had an AA F/O on board yesterday that said they were cheering that we voted down the TA. The TA is not about whether it's "good for me" or "doesn't affect what I do," it's about is it good and fair for others. Those "others" may not be in our company as other airlines look at what we approve to direct their employees' work rules.

What I was lead to believe when the TA was being worked on was that it was just going to "clean up" our current contract....not change it. For an employee group to turn down raises, no matter how small or large they are, it sends a message that there are definitely other issues that need to be addressed.

The neat thing about life is that there are no rights and wrongs in opinions. Rights and wrongs are our own beliefs of what is right and wrong. When it comes to the TA...if one person interprets what it says as one thing, and someone else interprets it to say something else...it means that there is problem in the wording in that it is definitely not clear cut. If it's not clear cut, then the company can interpret it one way and do what they want.

There are things to be fixed. Unfortunately the company has always hired many pilots that never had airline experience prior to SWA, so the company always got what they wanted. Those days are over. Saying "No thanks" to a TA is not going to dissolve a company. Mis-management dissolves companies.

As a pilot, I know I'm not the CEO of the airline and voting for or against a TA is not an attempt to control the company. Each vote should be each employees' opinion of whether they think the TA is good for or bad for the group as a whole. Unfortunately, I've heard too much from the captain side that said "This TA doesn't really affect me." It's very sad that people can't think beyond themselves.

 

[AAflyer]

FlyinHigh737,
From what you post as equipment that you've flown....I'm assuming this is your first airline. You flew a Diamond Katana (piston SEL) and a Beech Premier Jet.....then a 737. There's a lot of us that have flown in the airline industry before coming to SWA where we have gained a lot of insight into the inner workings of airlines. You may have read the whole TA, which is awesome and thank you, but there are issues that in the TA that are common to carriers that are out there now.

We had an AA F/O on board yesterday that said they were cheering that we voted down the TA. The TA is not about whether it's "good for me" or "doesn't affect what I do," it's about is it good and fair for others. Those "others" may not be in our company as other airlines look at what we approve to direct their employees' work rules.

What I was lead to believe when the TA was being worked on was that it was just going to "clean up" our current contract....not change it. For an employee group to turn down raises, no matter how small or large they are, it sends a message that there are definitely other issues that need to be addressed.

The neat thing about life is that there are no rights and wrongs in opinions. Rights and wrongs are our own beliefs of what is right and wrong. When it comes to the TA...if one person interprets what it says as one thing, and someone else interprets it to say something else...it means that there is problem in the wording in that it is definitely not clear cut. If it's not clear cut, then the company can interpret it one way and do what they want.

There are things to be fixed. Unfortunately the company has always hired many pilots that never had airline experience prior to SWA, so the company always got what they wanted. Those days are over. Saying "No thanks" to a TA is not going to dissolve a company. Mis-management dissolves companies.

As a pilot, I know I'm not the CEO of the airline and voting for or against a TA is not an attempt to control the company. Each vote should be each employees' opinion of whether they think the TA is good for or bad for the group as a whole. Unfortunately, I've heard too much from the captain side that said "This TA doesn't really affect me." It's very sad that people can't think beyond themselves.

Excellent post!!

AA

 

[BoilerUP]

...its actually a Falcon 20, Westwind, then Guppy...