SWAPA Info packet FEDEXed to all AirTran Pilots

[Lear70]

"Category and class" isn't a term that even exists in labor relations. I think you're thinking of "category and status," which is a term that deals with seniority integration and has been used in virtually every recent arbitration award. It has nothing to do with "craft and class," which is a term used in labor law that you apparently need to brush up on.

You can't win, even though you're 100% absolutely correct.

So many pilots *THINK* they understand the RLA, when in fact they don't know much beyond what parts of their own contract say. There's a REASON unions have lawyers... it's because pilots DON'T KNOW THE LAW. Even pilots with YEARS of experience in the union office day-in and day-out with union attorneys often don't fully get ALL of it.

If you guys really think you're correct, give a quick call to your union office, ask to speak to one of your attorneys on staff, and ask them the definitions of the above terms PCL has quoted to you. You'll find PCL to be spot-on.

Last hint: these ideas you guys are starting to float are ALL things that have occurred to our MC and team of attorneys in Herndon (they've seen a lot of this before with other, recent mergers). They've been asked, vetted, and answered. I'll always admit where there are loopholes or "nuclear options" for you guys, no reason not to.

This isn't one of them.

 

[dicko]

It depends. It may not have existed before but never before has there been such a difference in career expectations either.

No. You just got schooled.

 

[Lear70]

It depends. It may not have existed before but never before has there been such a difference in career expectations either.

It doesn't change the definitions laid down in RLA law, so it doesn't really "depend", but you are right that there hasn't been QUITE this extensive of a disparity in career expectations between two carriers that I can recall.

 

[dh82dvr]

How many SWA FOs bypassed upgrades for the QOL or whatever reason ?

 

[canyonblue]

How many SWA FOs bypassed upgrades for the QOL or whatever reason ?

Probably none, since we just got rid of the "Up or Out" with our last contract, so no one could bypass an upgrade. And we haven't had too many upgrade classes since the new contract went into effect.

 

[roughneck]

There is a light at the end of the tunnel. Choose wisely because that light may not be what you think it is.

Back to lurking.

 

[redflyer65]

Roughneck is exactly right. The nuclear option is to slowly transfer equipment. There is nothing anywhere to keep this from happening. The Muse Air option is still there if the Trannies try to overeach. He knows it, and I think most of them know it as well.

Check the Transition Agreement. No Southwest pilots to be furloughed during this whole process. I know Lear thinks it's an impossiblity, but really I'm not so sure. If Gary gets pushed into a corner by a labor group (and it could be someone other than the pilots), he could very easily pull the plug.

It's the real reason AAI is sitting in the Texas LLC. And to listen to PCL tell it, the only reason is for tax purposes. He's partially right...Guadaloupe was for tax purposes, Texas LLC is not.

Why would Gary set up TWO seperate LLC to attempt to integrate Airtran? It has absolutely nothing to due with taxes, I guarantee you that. Anybody at Airtran that thinks otherwise has his head deep in the sand.

Answer this one question...if it was for tax purposes, why put one more LLC in-between AAI and SW? Guadaloupe I can understand, Texas LLC is a whole nother animal.

The light at the end of the tunnel maybe a train. I would hate to start playing hardball with the Dallas GO. They will win, they do it all the time. They negotiate everyday, for everything. Choose wisely.

RF

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Roughneck is exactly right. The nuclear option is to slowly transfer equipment. There is nothing anywhere to keep this from happening. The Muse Air option is still there if the Trannies try to overeach. He knows it, and I think most of them know it as well.

Check the Transition Agreement. No Southwest pilots to be furloughed during this whole process. I know Lear thinks it's an impossiblity, but really I'm not so sure. If Gary gets pushed into a corner by a labor group (and it could be someone other than the pilots), he could very easily pull the plug.

It's the real reason AAI is sitting in the Texas LLC. And to listen to PCL tell it, the only reason is for tax purposes. He's partially right...Guadaloupe was for tax purposes, Texas LLC is not.

Why would Gary set up TWO seperate LLC to attempt to integrate Airtran? It has absolutely nothing to due with taxes, I guarantee you that. Anybody at Airtran that thinks otherwise has his head deep in the sand.

Answer this one question...if it was for tax purposes, why put one more LLC in-between AAI and SW? Guadaloupe I can understand, Texas LLC is a whole nother animal.

The light at the end of the tunnel maybe a train. I would hate to start playing hardball with the Dallas GO. They will win, they do it all the time. They negotiate everyday, for everything. Choose wisely.

RF

The nuclear option will produce a long, drug out court battle ala AAA. When it's done, we won't have to worry about the top WN guys cause they'll be gone.

Define "over reach" and how line pilots on an anonymous forum can "over reach".

You mean we're not still in Guadelupe Holdings? I thought just recently some of your legal eagles were threatening us with that. At least we've moved on. Texas Sub is the interim between DOCC and SOC. When SOC happens, Texas Sub will go away as well. Guadalupe was a marker while waiting for DOJ, it couldn't continue to exist and serve it's tax purposes, therefore Texas Sub was necessary.

 

[ATLplt]

I would hate to start playing hardball with the Dallas GO. They will win, they do it all the time. They negotiate everyday, for everything. Choose wisely.

RF

Who the hell is "playing hardball"...the egos on this forum or our appointed committees? I think the ALPA MC has been extremely professional throughout the process. The opinions on this forum are just that...opinions. There is a process. Both sides are arguing their cases. If nothing is resolved a neutral panel of three will rule on the information presented. That's it. Cut it with the stupid threats. It was old two months ago. uke:

 

[redflyer65]

Cut it with the stupid threats. It was old two months ago. uke:

I glad you can be so cavalier with what your MC is facing. Good luck with that.

Luv,

You haven't been following along...Guadeloupe did last briefly. Texas LLC? That will be up to you guys to decide. Just stating the obvious. It was setup this way for a reason...and it wasn't just for taxes.