SWA Won't Share Its Pain With Workers

[General Lee]

On my previous post, I should have stated that IF I were at SWA... I would gladly fly those LBB and AMA trips for what they pay.

Keep applying and go for it. I did answer your question about how fast a DL newhire could get to the INTL side if he/she wanted. It's all about Options.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[GoodTimes]

Absolutely. And both SWA and DL now have great balance sheets. We cleaned ours up in BK, and that has affected our pay too. We are now on the way back up, and if we are profitable (a good chance now that SWA likes to add $10 to fares) we will get up to a 6% raise each year, with a pre-tax profit. We are waiting for better times, and they are on the way. In the meantime, we are growing again, and we have opportunities for greatness, as long as management steers us right. It can only get better after getting rid of our last management. Please remember that we shed $13 billion in debt and restuctured leases for huge savings, while cutting employee costs too. Did you read anything about that in the papers? Too busy doing 25 minute turns in an orange 737?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you really think that your company just dumped $13 billion without consequence? Ah...the magic of CH 11. You're trying hard to paint a rosey picture. I would be too if I were in your shoes. Unfortunately, history shows CH 11 is not the panacea you may be hoping for. How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy? How many have filed just once? I hope you guys are the exception. Time will tell. What I do know is that it absolutely sucks having that stuff hanging over your head.

 

[SWA/FO]

...My balls are bigger than your balls...

cus, mine are used more.

So, who are flying the 15 daily flights into each city? Somebody is, and they are hating it. I do know what I am talking about. Refute that. Who are flying the 40 or 45 flights a day into all 3 of those cities? I'm waiting.......your regional affiliate? Would you like me to list each flight from each city for you?

General we gots 5500 Pilots, I'm sure someone is doing it. Its just not the folks here on flightinfo.com

SWA Won't Share Its Pain With Workers

What is the REAL title of this thread:"SWA Won't Share Its Pain With Workers but Delta is and has for quite sometime"

Stay off the REAL airline threads, General Leigh.

the SWA/FO imp:

 

[CA Calypso]

Yeah, yeah, I know, you don't care where you fly, blah blah blah... You would care if you were at Delta--there is great variety and you might actually smile as you approach the gate when you see your destination. As far as your pay, it is great, thanks to our old pay rate. Without it, you would have not even come close, and that really is a fact. We will try to climb back up there too, and we hope you keep the rates that we helped you establish. Don't forget that.


Bye Bye--General Lee

The same old dribble from you. You can thank the United boys and girls for YOUR pre 9-11 rates. They raised the bar to unsustainable levels and you merely rode their coattails. Don't forget that.

SWA's rates and subsequent increases had nothing to do with your rates and everything to do with what SWA could afford and were negotiated with profitability increases. Please do not rewrite history and attempt to take credit for them. To use your words: "That really is a fact" and "don't forget it."

 

[SWA/FO]

http://airlinepilotcentral.com

 

[Whataburger]

And you and SWA/FO are the same. Or wait, you are also Whataburger too. You sure are a good slooth......riiiight. Nobody in this world could share my same views on certain subjects. I applaud Heavy for speaking out with me about some aspects of Southwest and going against the corndog mafia. Bravo.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Wow, today has been great. Find a 6TFP IAD turn, and then - THEN I get mentioned in the same thread as THE SWA/FO!!!! Off to play the lotto. July 9th will forever be my favorite day. The Whataburger is going to have a beer now.:beer: :beer: :beer: imp:

PS. Nice job egging on the Genital folks. He/She is only 7 posts from the new thread - "9000 Posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

[General Lee]

Do you really think that your company just dumped $13 billion without consequence? Ah...the magic of CH 11. You're trying hard to paint a rosey picture. I would be too if I were in your shoes. Unfortunately, history shows CH 11 is not the panacea you may be hoping for. How many airlines have filed for bankruptcy? How many have filed just once? I hope you guys are the exception. Time will tell. What I do know is that it absolutely sucks having that stuff hanging over your head.

Fitch just upgraded our bonds and there are plenty of articles now saying Delta will be doing better. I don't know if it is all correct, but Delta used to be the tops when it came to finance, and bad management led us down the wrong path. If you can't see that then you are blind. If you blame us pilots for the downfall, then you too will fall. Our management has changed, and Grinstein, the last of the old crew, will be gone shortly. A new board has taken over, and oversight is a lot better. And what stuff are you talking about hanging over our head? Can you elaborate? Our credit rating? That has shot upwards, and we are healing nicely. United came out of BK with $19 billion in debt not shed, so I think we did better. CAL has been through two BKs, and they are doing well for the time being. You never know what will happen, but DL is better positioned now then it was a few years ago to weather a storm. You cannot deny that. As far as a rosy picture here, I think things are turning around slowly, and that USAir fight did pull us together. A new CEO will have to keep this going.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Wow, today has been great. Find a 6TFP IAD turn, and then - THEN I get mentioned in the same thread as THE SWA/FO!!!! Off to play the lotto. July 9th will forever be my favorite day. The Whataburger is going to have a beer now.:beer: :beer: :beer: imp:

PS. Nice job egging on the Genital folks. He/She is only 7 posts from the new thread - "9000 Posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

I am on the way to 10,000, and thanks to you guys most of the rest will likely be about LBB, SWA, and corndogs. I LUV you guys. But, if anything new comes up about Comair, SkyWest, or Jetblue, I will give my opinion about those too. I love FI.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[GuppyWN]

General. I can bid a line that has 19 days off, pays $11k gross and can avoid LBB if I want. All this as a senior FO. What do your FO's get in days off and monthly gross flying to exotic locals out east?

Serious question.
Gup

 

[GoodTimes]

Fitch just upgraded our bonds and there are plenty of articles now saying Delta will be doing better. I don't know if it is all correct, but Delta used to be the tops when it came to finance, and bad management led us down the wrong path. If you can't see that then you are blind. If you blame us pilots for the downfall, then you too will fall. Our management has changed, and Grinstein, the last of the old crew, will be gone shortly. A new board has taken over, and oversight is a lot better. And what stuff are you talking about hanging over our head? Can you elaborate? Our credit rating? That has shot upwards, and we are healing nicely. United came out of BK with $19 billion in debt not shed, so I think we did better. CAL has been through two BKs, and they are doing well for the time being. You never know what will happen, but DL is better positioned now then it was a few years ago to weather a storm. You cannot deny that. As far as a rosy picture here, I think things are turning around slowly, and that USAir fight did pull us together. A new CEO will have to keep this going.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Nobody said anything about the Delta pilots being the cause of your misfortune. And as far as falling.....I've already done that at my previous airline. The unpleasant "stuff" hanging over the head of any employee in this industry refers to bk, furloughs, mergers, etc..... I do think your company is better positioned now than it was this time last year. But you and I both know that's not saying much. Good on ya if the USAir fight galvanized your group. Unfortunately, I think that that was just a warm up.

 

[General Lee]

General. I can bid a line that has 19 days off, pays $11k gross and can avoid LBB if I want. All this as a senior FO. What do your FO's get in days off and monthly gross flying to exotic locals out east?

Serious question.
Gup

Gup,

It depends on the aircraft and time at Delta. I would say the junior captain at DL is a late 97 hire or early 98 hire on the MD88 in ATL or NYC. So, an FO at Delta can have 18 years and be a 777 FO (although we just had a 1997 hire get bottom 777FO--and we only have 8 of them with another 6-8 coming in the next 3 years) can pull in $11-12K per month flying 3 3 day trips to NRT (each ATL--Tokyo trip is a 3 day worth 28 hours). That means they have 21 days off. We have similar trips from ATL to Seoul, Dubai, Tel Aviv, and Mumbai thru JFK on the 777. The 764 has trips from ATL to Hawaii nonstop, plus flights to London, Paris, Rome, Frankfurt, Madrid, Manchester, and Barcelona in the Summer, plus some domestic to SLC. We have 2000 hires on the bottom of reserve on those planes. They probably bring in $10K a month and do 4 3 day trips to Europe or a Hawaii or two and get 18 days off a month. The 767/757 domestic is different than the INTL 767, because it still does the 30 in 7 rule. The INTL 767 and other INTL aircraft can line up trips in a row and do them all in 10 days, or space them out. We have a 9 day trip on the 767 INTL that is worth 61 hours. (ATL--FRA--JFK--FRA--CVG--FRA--and back to ATL. And we have the same for London and and Rome I believe) We also have 3 day trips to Prague, Athens,
Munich, etc. We also do 4 day trips (late duty in and an allnighter back the 4th day back at 6am) to Rio, Buenos Aires, Santiago, etc. The variety is endless. We also have quick two day trips to San Jose, Costa Rica, Panama, Panama, and Bogota. The 767ER pilots make $10K a month and have about 18 days off, with a tan and a smile. Domestic guys probably work harder, but there are turns on the 757/767 to PHX, St Thomas, San Juan all worth alomst 8 hours, so many sleep in their beds every night. That is the same on the 738, where we have some 10 hour day trips (fly down, DH back) to the Carribbean and to places in Montana from ATL (Kalispell, Bozeman). Even the MD88 has turns to Guadalarja and St Croix from ATL. If you work hard and fly 10 or 11 days with turns, you can make good money on those too.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[afhercdriver]

One thing I have learned since I got a job at SW is nobody will ever know how good it is here unless they come to SW and see it for themselves.

Amen Brother!

 

[General Lee]

The same old dribble from you. You can thank the United boys and girls for YOUR pre 9-11 rates. They raised the bar to unsustainable levels and you merely rode their coattails. Don't forget that.

SWA's rates and subsequent increases had nothing to do with your rates and everything to do with what SWA could afford and were negotiated with profitability increases. Please do not rewrite history and attempt to take credit for them. To use your words: "That really is a fact" and "don't forget it."

Thanks Dad, if you say so........riiiiight. Yeah, we can thank the United boys, and you and the Fedex guys can thank us. Our 777 Captains were making $315 an hour, and then Leo squandered $2 billion in stock buy backs to raise his option shares (as surmised by the BK Judge Prudence Betty) and then 9-11 happened, and poof---all of that money vanished. Then the slide continued, with our fixed cost contract holding as long as we could. But you obviously know the whole story. Riiiight Dad. Your rates were thanks to our 737 rates being so high and your non incompetent management keeping your fuel hedges and lasting through 9-11 and it's aftermath. Had we not had those 737 rates in place, you would have nothing to compare it too, since United was already tumbling at that point after 9-11. Sorry to tell you how it "really happened", but it did chief.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

General Lee eats his own poop. :laugh: uke:

A Village in Georgia is missing it's idiot. :nuts:

 

[capt. megadeth]

...My balls are bigger than your balls...

Hmm, Mega - isn't that, sort of, impossible?

Nah....my balls are just a little higher.....tee hee

 

[CA Calypso]

Thanks Dad, if you say so........riiiiight. Yeah, we can thank the United boys, and you and the Fedex guys can thank us. Our 777 Captains were making $315 an hour, and then Leo squandered $2 billion in stock buy backs to raise his option shares (as surmised by the BK Judge Prudence Betty) and then 9-11 happened, and poof---all of that money vanished. Then the slide continued, with our fixed cost contract holding as long as we could. But you obviously know the whole story. Riiiight Dad. Your rates were thanks to our 737 rates being so high and your non incompetent management keeping your fuel hedges and lasting through 9-11 and it's aftermath. Had we not had those 737 rates in place, you would have nothing to compare it too, since United was already tumbling at that point after 9-11. Sorry to tell you how it "really happened", but it did chief.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Most of your post is jibberish. What a Delta 777 CA made at Delta is irrelevant to what SWA's pay rates are. A concept you just don't understand. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a thank you from Fed Ex guys either - their company's ability to pay is completely different than a pax company's ability.

I am sorry that Leo raped your company but again - irrelevant.

SWA's rates were from a 1994 contract and a subsequent extension with profitability raises that had nothing to do with Delta's pay. If you took the time I think you would see that SWAPA's culture is signifigantly different than ALPA's - I speak from experience as I am previous ALPA. SWAPA doesn't negotiate by "jacking up the house one corner at a time."

And thanks for calling me dad. I'll take it as compliment but I am willing to bet I am younger than you!

Have a good night...

 

[General Lee]

Most of your post is jibberish. What a Delta 777 CA made at Delta is irrelevant to what SWA's pay rates are. A concept you just don't understand. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a thank you from Fed Ex guys either - their company's ability to pay is completely different than a pax company's ability.

I am sorry that Leo raped your company but again - irrelevant.

SWA's rates were from a 1994 contract and a subsequent extension with profitability raises that had nothing to do with Delta's pay. If you took the time I think you would see that SWAPA's culture is signifigantly different than ALPA's - I speak from experience as I am previous ALPA. SWAPA doesn't negotiate by "jacking up the house one corner at a time."

And thanks for calling me dad. I'll take it as compliment but I am willing to bet I am younger than you!

Have a good night...

See, you fail to recognize what really went on here. Have you guys EVER had a non profitable quarter? No. So why weren't you paid $200 an hour 10 years ago? You have always done well. Same with the Fedex guys. You have no answer for this. Was it because all of your senior pilots got stock options and allowed a 10 year contract because they all got rich? Oh yeah, that happened too. Southwest went for the higher pay rates because we went there after United, period. You can make up whatever you want, but that doesn't make it true. I call you Dad because you think you are because you are already a Captain, and most Dads, as we all know, are clueless. Are you younger than I am? 41? If you are, good for you sport. And, SWAPA can't jack up just one corner because all you have are 737s. ALPA can't always get the same rates for every plane at Legacies because not all planes carry the same amount of people or make as much revenue. And sorry to tell you this, but if for some reason you unfortunately have to go through BK (which I would never wish on anyone really), then SWAPA wouldn't be able do to much either. When a BK judge is looking out for the creditors and not the employees, you just don't have much choice. Sad but true.

Sweet dreams sport!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AV80R]

Nah....my balls are just a little higher.....tee hee

Ah, now it all makes sense! :laugh:

 

[328dude]

Genital:

What's a typical schedule for your 737's or MD-88's that stay domestic in regards to pay, days off from junior lines to more senior lines. Are they mostly 3 or 4 days?

Another serious question as was Gups

 

[AV80R]

...So why weren't you paid $200 an hour 10 years ago?...Was it because all of your senior pilots got stock options and allowed a 10 year contract because they all got rich?...

General – I’ve enjoyed many of your previous posts even though quite often I tend to disagree with you. This time I am simply confused.

Why do you pick so much on SWA guys/gals? If they like their company and the type of flying they do – more power to them, right? I love international flying like you do, but I also understand why many pilots prefer domestic flying – it’s all good as long as you and your family is happy, right?

Is it possible that even though Delta seems as the perfect airline to some, SWA might appear even more perfect to others? You know, not too many classes ago, we saw yet another Delta pilot joining the ranks of brown aviators. He decided he wanted to start all over again here at UPS and I say - more power to him – don’t you?
After all, if he’s happy, surely you must be happy for a fellow aviator, right?

Also – and this one’s gonna hurt! - for the last 10 messages or so, your post count has been frozen at 8,999 ! It is quite possible that you will NEVER reach 10,000 :bawling: posts!!!

Are you gonna be all right?