SWA today like the airline in the book, "Nuts!"?

[waveflyer]

IMHO
of course

 

[waveflyer]

Make your point then. All I've heard from you is:

1. A tiny pay raise to fly wide body international jets,
it's a raise in proportion to how many wide bodies we get- same benefit to all-
Have you ever worked at a legacy?
Do you know the internal divisions that occur between types-
Think GL's constant ripping on regional flying-
Think Usair airbus instructors wearing Armani suits to the TC
Think united calling the 73 light twins and think that same group selling out domestic work rules in BK that didn't affect international pilots nearly as much-
Divisions are ALWAYS bad for pilots- we ALL need to value and respect each other and pull on the same end of the rope

2. You don't want to fly them so nobody should be payed more to do it.
i DO want to fly them. Can't imagine not AND I don't want to be paid more than my 73 brothers --just an international override to make customs and papers worth it(ie: shouldn't be a pay cut for the individual)
I just don't want to be effectively forced to fly wide bodies APPROACHING RETIREMENT- Do you see that? I want choice for pilots un-influenced by financial pressure

3. An assumption that everybody thinks the same way as you,
at SWA most do- I'm making my case to you and any readers here- think as you will

4. Your worried that it will make you look old, but it's really very easy, and
im 43- I'm good man-
Easy is actually my point to those who say it ought to be paid more- effort isn't the point- we won't be able to fly wide bodies without domestic feed and widebodies will stimulate domestic traffic- keep that synergy and pay the same - valuing both-a domestic plane will do more t/o's and lands (at risk) international carries more pax and has intl rules- BOTH ARE VALUABLE

5. Frustration followed by insults when your point is badly made.
have I made my point better? Let me know

Make your point Wave. Or do you have nothing more than some math that proves it doesn't benefit anybody ? Other than the company and your skin tone.

saying the math doesn't benefit anybody says that you don't understand the math. That was the frustration- do you still not get time value of money and that a dollar $20 years before is more valuable than $20 20 years later?
Seriously, let me know- I know I'm not good at explaining things like that- the vast majority of Swapa pilots would be far better off financially with a one-blended rate system

Btw- I believe we ought to negotiate a raise for the -800's blended in as well-

 

[PCL_128]

As much as this pains me......I agree with wave.

Unfortunately, I think the divisions he references are inevitable, though. The widebody aircraft will show up at SWA someday. Probably not as soon as the optimists and kool aid drinkers predict, but they're coming. And when they do, the small cadre of pilots at the top of the list who would be able to hold them will look around the industry, see the pay divide between narrowbody and widebody aircraft at every other airline (even UPS pays an international override, BTW), and feel entitled to have it at SWA for themselves. Then they'll lobby SWAPA for a pay raise for themselves, the people who can't hold the widebodies will lobby wave's position, and the division begins.

I wish wave's way of looking at it would take hold in the industry. But pilots are just too selfish.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I have no interest in wide bodies or international, I want it to pay more to entice others so I don't have to do it.

 

[dicko]

im 43

Good. I'm younger than you, and senior to you. I didn't read the rest. I don't care about the wide body pay now. That single fact has made me so happy that you can have a blended pay rate.

 

[scoreboardII]

I have no idea what you're talking about
Seriously-
I'm not talking about changing anything about our current payscale or taking away rewards of being topped out or senior-
I'm just saying we set a rate for the widebody and combine it in with our 737 rates-
Lets just make math easy - we buy 50 787's- new rate $250 a trip- 700 737's at $200/trip= blended rate for all pilots of $203.33
(X-50*$250=$12,500; Y-700*$200=$140,000; $140k+$12.5k=$152,500/750 a/c= $203.33 tfp)
If we eventually get 300 wide bodies, then that's $215tfp

It's about unity within our union which will lead to better contracts- and QOL, not chasing the damn carrot our whole career filling up the training department with unnecessary events as pilots inevitably go for the money- (and money almost always leads to pride and separatism in our union) - the pilot group still captures the productivity of the larger plane- and yes I know it gets severely diluted for the individual by our masses of 737 narrowbodies- but you have to think big picture-

If you're 62, what kind of flying do you want to do? Would you like a choice? Or do you want to purposefully set up a situation where you have to fly wide in order to capture the full value of your career?
I don't.

With separate pay rates, only pilots who choose to fly wide and are senior enough to hold the widebody a/c will ever capture the full value of the SWA career-
A blended rate ensures that EVERY pilot will capture the full value no matter what choice they make or what their seniority holds-
I'm young and that's a good thing- way more secure

Which is the exact point of my previous post, A senior guy flying big iron will never agree to fly the bigger jet for LESS average pay.

The company will never agree to pay an across the board average pay that we pilots would agree to fly, they would want a cushion of say 10-25%.

Heck, they may even scoff one pay because it severely limits their flexibility, as if SWA has any flexibility left.

Not going to happen, sorry.

 

[SWA Bubba]

If you're going to complain about others espousing intimate knowledge of your union, your companies history and your contract; you're going to need to erase most of your own posts. Annoying isn't it ?

You must have me confused with someone else; perhaps someone who waxes on and on about AirTran. And, yes, I agree with you--you are annoying.

And as far as your other points go, I don't care for Metallica, so I missed that. On the other hand, if you use lines from actual, real rock music (classic rock, that is), I'll be right there with you.

Tell you what--Let me get back in your good graces by having my own apology tour: I'm sorry my boss bought your airline out from under you. I'm sorry you didn't get whatever you wanted from the SLI. I'm sorry Southwest isn't run as well or efficiently as AirTran was. I'm sorry we fly some old, technologically-challenged airplanes. Let's see,... what else?.... I'm sorry you're disappointed in me. I'm sorry I ever doubted you. I'm sorry our union doesn't measure up to yours. And finally, I'm sorry that your mother named you "Dicko."

We good now?

Bubba

 

[Dan Roman]

You must have me confused with someone else; perhaps someone who waxes on and on about AirTran. And, yes, I agree with you--you are annoying.

And as far as your other points go, I don't care for Metallica, so I missed that. On the other hand, if you use lines from actual, real rock music (classic rock, that is), I'll be right there with you.

Tell you what--Let me get back in your good graces by having my own apology tour: I'm sorry my boss bought your airline out from under you. I'm sorry you didn't get whatever you wanted from the SLI. I'm sorry Southwest isn't run as well or efficiently as AirTran was. I'm sorry we fly some old, technologically-challenged airplanes. Let's see,... what else?.... I'm sorry you're disappointed in me. I'm sorry I ever doubted you. I'm sorry our union doesn't measure up to yours. And finally, I'm sorry that your mother named you "Dicko."

We good now?

Bubba

.

You forgot I'm sorry we have Lubbock layovers.

 

[Ty Webb]

You must have me confused with someone else; perhaps someone who waxes on and on about AirTran. And, yes, I agree with you--you are annoying.

And as far as your other points go, I don't care for Metallica, so I missed that. On the other hand, if you use lines from actual, real rock music (classic rock, that is), I'll be right there with you.

Tell you what--Let me get back in your good graces by having my own apology tour: I'm sorry my boss bought your airline out from under you. I'm sorry you didn't get whatever you wanted from the SLI. I'm sorry Southwest isn't run as well or efficiently as AirTran was. I'm sorry we fly some old, technologically-challenged airplanes. Let's see,... what else?.... I'm sorry you're disappointed in me. I'm sorry I ever doubted you. I'm sorry our union doesn't measure up to yours. And finally, I'm sorry that your mother named you "Dicko."

We good now?

Bubba

Bubba-

You have certainly been one of the more reasonable people on the board in regards to this whole SWA/AAI thing. While I certainly don't presume to speak for the inimitable Dicko, I would like to try to clear something up-

I don't think any of us on here think that AAI was perfect or great, nor is SWA "bad". . . . far from it. I think most of us are just trying to counter some of the assertions on here that we are somehow lesser Pilots who were working for some shaky operation that should be happy that we weren't ALL stapled or parted out.

Depending on where a Pilot was on our seniority list, many of us had it pretty good. We had our beefs with management, but we were proud that we had helped build the airline from basically nothing to a very viable and scrappy competitor that SWA management had enough respect for to buy us and combine the two into the airline they need going forward.

While there were some big differences of opinion between the Pilot groups about what a "fair" SLI list should look like, I think we can agree that what we ended up with is probably not fair by Industry standards (loss of all Captain seats even for Pilots approaching 20 years of service, loss of our main Pilot base, Pilots hired after the merger transitioning ahead of Pilots with 7 or more years' service, etc). How those things happened, and who is to blame, well, everyone has their own ideas, but, in my opinion, there is more than enough blame to go around, between the Companies, the Unions, and the Pilots themselves (including yours truly).

Regardless of how it has turned out, I am not an "angry" person. We are where we are, and hopefully, it will all work out for the best. We are all fortunate enough to be making a good living flying airplanes for a financially strong Company, and I try not to lose sight of that fact as we go through this process.

Regards,
Ty

Ps., Dan Roman is right about Lubbock. We should have gotten a few extra days or weeks of seniority to compensate for that layover.

Trivia question- anyone know where the name "Dan Roman" comes from?

Hint- Very appropriate for a HAL pilot, especially an FO.

 

[SWA Bubba]

.

You forgot I'm sorry we have Lubbock layovers.

Dammit!

How could I have forgotten that?! Where's the General when you need him anyway?

Bubba