SWA to lower mins?

[ERJpusher]

I have always believed that being a commercial airline pilot is a "profession." How many other professions do you know that don't require a degree? How many doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, pharmacists, teachers, professors, engineers do you know that did not complete a degree? I don't know any. Most of these people learn their occupations "On the job" also, so don't use that argument with me either. So why is it that you can become a "professional" pilot, making quarter-million dollars a year or more, without having a degree?

I worked hard to get my degrees, and I'm proud of it. I could have not gone to college, and built my flight experience in the meantime. But instead I did BOTH. At the same time. Do I feel I am a better pilot than someone without a degree? Not at all. Do I feel that I am a more qualified pilot than someone without a degree? Absolutely. I have proven my ability to succeed at two very complex tasks simultaneously.

This is not an attack on people who do not have a degree. I have many friends and know many wonderful people in the industry who don't have a degree. However, it bothers me when people undermine and underestimate the amount of work, determination, and sacrifice it takes to achieve such a goal. Us graduates have put a lot more work into our careers than non-graduates, and we deserve all the advantages that come with that.

 

[jonjuan]

I have always believed that being a commercial airline pilot is a "profession." How many other professions do you know that don't require a degree? How many doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, pharmacists, teachers, professors, engineers do you know that did not complete a degree? I don't know any. Most of these people learn their occupations "On the job" also, so don't use that argument with me either. So why is it that you can become a "professional" pilot, making quarter-million dollars a year or more, without having a degree?

Us graduates have put a lot more work into our careers than non-graduates, and we deserve all the advantages that come with that.

http://www.pubclub.com/collegefootball/index.htm

 

[ERJpusher]

http://www.pubclub.com/collegefootball/index.htm

??????

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean....

 

[pilotyip]

Pilots are not like Doctors

ERJpusher; There is no comparison, Doctors are knowledge workers, and pilots are skilled workers. Doctors go to school for up to 20 years, work for slave wages until established in practice. Anyone with a certain level of skill and desire can be a pilot, no high school diploma, no college BS degree required, no MD like a doctor, just go to a trade school and develop a skill. Pilots unlike Doctors, CPA's and Engineers have no unique abilities that allow them to change jobs and be paid close to their last job. The job can be done by anyone with a Comm/MEL/Inst. High earnings are based upon seniority within a company's pay structure. When you can not live on a pilot’s pay, you go somewhere else where you can get better pay. I have had four non-flying jobs while waiting for a chance to get back into aviation. I have never seen a $100K in my life and I would be happy to work for that. I am still living my dream and it is not for anyone else to pass judgement upon my career. It has been posted that I am anti-college degree. Nothing could be further from the truth. The country needs all the college-educated citizens it can have, its raises the level of knowledge to keep this as the greatest country in the world. Real degrees in business, engineering, the sciences, math, and medicine provide a graduate with marketable skills. If you are going to go to college, get a real degree from a real university. Do not spend four years getting a degree in Women’s Studies so you can apply at FedEx. The college degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Many have posted they agree it has nothing to do with the mastering on an airplane. I have admitted that the possession of a degree may open doors at a few select places of employment in the airline industry. If a potential pilot feels they will only be pleased in life if they get an interview with FedEx, then that prospective pilot should go to college. Air Inc advertises that 172 airlines and assorted aviation companies are recruiting right now; I only see four that make the degree a showstopper. My assertion that runs contrary to the ‘College is a must” crowd, is that to be competitive for the other 168 places the degree is not necessary. If a prospective pilots just loves flying airplanes, and would be happy making $70-$150K per year with no debt from college loans, a college degree is not necessary. Many prospective pilots may be steered into attending college when they are not college material, not because of a lack basic intelligence, but because it is not important to them. These pilots want to get on with their lives flying airplanes. I have seen too many non-degreed pilots reach a good career position with out a degree. But then my focus is on job satisfaction and not upon pay, respect, and prestige. It is about the joy of flying an airplane. Others out there may feel the same motivation I do. My advice is go to school part time or community college and fly, pilots get hired because they have flight time. Flt time moves you up the food chain to better jobs; the degree is not needed until the last step. You can go to school part time with a full time flying job, you cannot build real flight time while going to school full time. I have seen non-degreed guys go to the Nationals in their mid-20’s.

 

[ERJpusher]

Well, agree to diasgree.

 

[hypersonic]

College may not help you become a better pilot but it may help you get a better flying job. Technical writting, for example, teaches you how to write better resumes, cover letters and recommendations. Management class helps you understand corporate culture of your present or future employer that in return helps you make a decision to work there. Not all the college classes are useful but most of them are, at least for me.

 

[Old School]

How much has the type been costing guys? I see 5k in the ads but I hear it's closer to 9k if you want food and lodging. How many days/nights does the course take? Do all the 737 variants have the same type rating?

 

[Scrapdog]

College may not help you become a better pilot but it may help you get a better flying job. Technical writting, for example, teaches you how to write better resumes, cover letters and recommendations. Management class helps you understand corporate culture of your present or future employer that in return helps you make a decision to work there. Not all the college classes are useful but most of them are, at least for me.

A 4 year college degree is very important, both in this profession and out of it. I've gone round and round with pilotyip so I'll spare my diatribe and keep it short (unlike him). Pilotyip loves to think inside the box, inside his little world of minutia. Let's think outside the box for a second - what would happen if you were to be injured on the job or lose your medical? Then you're up sh*t creek without a paddle with no 4 year degree. You might as well think about washing dishes the rest of your life because you can't even come close to competing with today's bright 4 year grads. Thinking outside the box - hey, college helped me with that. And not to mention all the good things above that hypersonic has already metioned that college helps with as well.

Last but not least pilotyip - as far as flying in the military (both fighters and heavies), a college degree is extremely important. You couldn't be further from the truth. Having a 4 year degree has taught me a lot about thinking on my toes in dynamic situations, which happens all the time on complex air to air or air to ground sorties. Fellas - for god's sakes, get your degree and better your life. You'll be a better person and a better pilot all around.

 

[hypersonic]

Old School,
It is 8 days course, 5k + (travel, hotel and food) and it's the same type. I heard that the 5k price is only for the next three months.

 

[pilotyip]

Fall back value of degree overrated

Scrapdog, you flew in the USAF, you had to have college degree to be an officer, which is the only way to be a pilot in the USAF. In the past when college grads could not fill the military pilot ranks, the degree was waived to get qualified pilots. Guess what they did a great job. As I have said before I have nothing against a college degree, but it is not necessary to succeed in this business. The fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, when Zantop pretented to go out of business to get consessions from the Teamsters, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53-year-old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use the knowledge gained in college in order to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?