SWA to England?

[TurboS7]

Using the Boeing BLT you should be able to go ISP to LGW non-stop on a good day with ETOPS reserves. If not a quick tech stop at YQX would do the trick. You might have to limit your pax to 110 during the summer but would be able to do a full load in the winter. It is not as far as you would think. Flight time comes to just over 6.0 hours with an averge 80 knot tailwind.

 

[bustinmins]

Very true.

Someone will still be needed to play with the joystick as it cruises across the country.

I am sure that position will pay just as good!!!

 

[igneousy2]

I don't know general...your credibility is all but gone from me...on the one hand you bash swa for going to lbb...and then you come out "we get to go to Lagos!"

Sounds exciting!

I think I'd rather endure lbb than risk getting some still unknown monkey flu in lagos.

As far as JB poison pill... here is rule number one when listening to lawyers...

1. never believe a lawyer who tells you something relating to a contract is "black and white" or "iron clad" it NEVER is.

Additionally, if the lawyers are telling you your only recourse will be to strike...that doesn't sound like such a great deal to me as IF you are RELEASED for a strike (even though you are non-union you are still part of the RLA dungeon) it may very well be what DAL or whoever buys you WANTS anyway...go ahead and strike...we'll just fire you and hire replacements...we only wanted your airline for the JFK slots and gates ANYWAY. self-help is a two way street.

Also it doesn't smell right to me. It sounds like there is punitive language in "the contract" which is NOT ENFORCEABLE. Any kind of penalty inflicted must past a reasonableness test as far as that any "penalty" imposed must reimburse the other party but cannot be punitive in nature. For example, if you back out of an apartment lease...you are liable to pay rent on the apartment for the duration of the lease, however, your landlord must make a good faith effort to find a new tenant, when he does, your obligation to pay the lease going forward would end. You would have to be able to show that you were actually harmed by whatever scheme was imposed on you. Usually only monetary damages are considered by the courts, judges don't understand captain vs. first officer or bidding number one vs. bidding number 100. Because JB has a lower pay scale then Delta's (most of Deltas FO's make more than any of JB's pilots) and the fact that you will probably be seat protected in any merger scheme it will hard to show any actual monetary loss. If you don't believe me ask the 3,000 TWA pilots that got stapled to the bottom of AA's list about this very argument.

The other question I have is who are the "parties" to this contract. Is this something that each individual pilot signs with the company. If it isn't, since there is no entity that represent the pilots (i.e. a union) then there is no "contract" it is merely a policy that whomever controls the company can change pretty much at there will.

My other question would be what the quid-pro-quo (this for that) was. For a contract to be enforceable, both parties must do or give up something in exchange for something else. For example, if I sign a letter saying that I will give you 1.0 million dollars on May 5 and I don't, it doesn't matter, you will not be able to get the money unless you can show that you gave up something in exchange for the 1.0 million dollars. Without the quid-pro-quo it is merely a "promise" which is not enforceable in a court of law. What did JB pilots do or give up in order to justify this contract language.

Anyway, please don't take this as a slam it is not. I am merely putting information out there so the pilots at JB can do there own research and ask some questions when the lawyers start spewing words like "black and white" and "iron clad"

later

 

[General Lee]

I don't know general...your credibility is all but gone from me...on the one hand you bash swa for going to lbb...and then you come out "we get to go to Lagos!"

Sounds exciting!

I think I'd rather endure lbb than risk getting some still unknown monkey flu in lagos.

As far as JB poison pill... here is rule number one when listening to lawyers...

1. never believe a lawyer who tells you something relating to a contract is "black and white" or "iron clad" it NEVER is.

Additionally, if the lawyers are telling you your only recourse will be to strike...that doesn't sound like such a great deal to me as IF you are RELEASED for a strike (even though you are non-union you are still part of the RLA dungeon) it may very well be what DAL or whoever buys you WANTS anyway...go ahead and strike...we'll just fire you and hire replacements...we only wanted your airline for the JFK slots and gates ANYWAY. self-help is a two way street.

Also it doesn't smell right to me. It sounds like there is punitive language in "the contract" which is NOT ENFORCEABLE. Any kind of penalty inflicted must past a reasonableness test as far as that any "penalty" imposed must reimburse the other party but cannot be punitive in nature. For example, if you back out of an apartment lease...you are liable to pay rent on the apartment for the duration of the lease, however, your landlord must make a good faith effort to find a new tenant, when he does, your obligation to pay the lease going forward would end. You would have to be able to show that you were actually harmed by whatever scheme was imposed on you. Usually only monetary damages are considered by the courts, judges don't understand captain vs. first officer or bidding number one vs. bidding number 100. Because JB has a lower pay scale then Delta's (most of Deltas FO's make more than any of JB's pilots) and the fact that you will probably be seat protected in any merger scheme it will hard to show any actual monetary loss. If you don't believe me ask the 3,000 TWA pilots that got stapled to the bottom of AA's list about this very argument.

The other question I have is who are the "parties" to this contract. Is this something that each individual pilot signs with the company. If it isn't, since there is no entity that represent the pilots (i.e. a union) then there is no "contract" it is merely a policy that whomever controls the company can change pretty much at there will.

My other question would be what the quid-pro-quo (this for that) was. For a contract to be enforceable, both parties must do or give up something in exchange for something else. For example, if I sign a letter saying that I will give you 1.0 million dollars on May 5 and I don't, it doesn't matter, you will not be able to get the money unless you can show that you gave up something in exchange for the 1.0 million dollars. Without the quid-pro-quo it is merely a "promise" which is not enforceable in a court of law. What did JB pilots do or give up in order to justify this contract language.

Anyway, please don't take this as a slam it is not. I am merely putting information out there so the pilots at JB can do there own research and ask some questions when the lawyers start spewing words like "black and white" and "iron clad"

later

First of all, I don't really want to go to Lagos, but I will go anywhere once (I went to LBB once, hated it). And, as far as what COULD happen if Delta or anyone else wanted to buy JB, that is questionable. Who knows? But, if the lawyers through in there "every JB employee would get $5 million in quarters if someone bought us"---do you think it would float? I have a feeling that would be taken out of any final agreement, and if JB doesn't have ALPA, it might be tough to get a merged seniority list. Throw in there that most of DL is non union, and the fact that management would want to save face with those employees first, by probably stapling the JB employees below them. ("see, we protected you.....") Who knows, again?

And, me losing credibility in your eyes is not that important to me. I come on here ready to debate, and try to bring up logical discussions, with a bit of entertainment thrown in for me. I like to debate aviation issues. This is not a popularity contest, and I do it for enjoyment reasons. I hope you understand. I am not out to slam every company, well, except Comair and sometimes SkyWest. Take care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Aubie]

SWA flies to LBB? Man I didn't know that. I've been here 2 1/2 years and never had an overnight or even flown in there.

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled. Maybe it's all the cash...

 

[canyonblue]

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled.

Must be his favorite song................

"Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside of me
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Step inside, that's what you'll see
Misery loves company, oh yeah"

 

[HalinTexas]

Using the Boeing BLT you should be able to go ISP to LGW non-stop on a good day with ETOPS reserves. If not a quick tech stop at YQX would do the trick. You might have to limit your pax to 110 during the summer but would be able to do a full load in the winter. It is not as far as you would think. Flight time comes to just over 6.0 hours with an averge 80 knot tailwind.

Did you include the fact that you have to run the APU the entire time you're over water? Might effect your fuel calculations.

Next. 110 pax won't ever make money on that route in a B737.

 

[General Lee]

SWA flies to LBB? Man I didn't know that. I've been here 2 1/2 years and never had an overnight or even flown in there.

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled. Maybe it's all the cash...

If you are based in BWI, you may never go there. If you are based in DAL, you may go there once a week (oh, that would be horrible). A MDW based pilot stated he saw 16 trips with LBB layovers this month. Maybe next month he will get some AMA or MAF layovers---what fun!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Must be his favorite song................

"Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside of me
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Step inside, that's what you'll see
Misery loves company, oh yeah"

I really enjoy my job, and one of the reasons is that I don't ever, ever have to go back to LBB again. I enjoy my San Juan and St Thomas turns. If I need a layover, I try to get SAN or SEA. This summer I will try to get Anchorage layovers. When I finally go over to the INTL side, I will get Venice or Nice. Those trips are more like a mini-vacation. You know (well, maybe you don't) what they say about INTL flying? It is a first class buffet (yes, we get first class meals--in the contract) on the way over to happy hour. See ya. You need to enjoy---DAL--LBB--ABQ--PHX--LAS--BOI--PDX tomorrow.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

I really enjoy my job.............

Bye Bye--General Lee

One day you may really enjoy a wife and kids, I don't believe you have a family now. On the other hand, if you are married with kid's the what the hell is 8,605 post on FI about?