SWA/SWAPA hiring numbers..

[SWAnnabee]

Thanks Snoopy

Always in the mood for encouragement in this job market. Does anyone know if they use a conversion for the military time to put us on par with the 121 time? I know about the .3/flight for the taxi time but is there an additional multiplier that maybe only the hiring department knows about?
I have the type and am waiting for the app window to open. I have heard that if you meet the hiring requirements you WILL get interviewed. That is really all I am asking for. The rest is obviously up to me but I am just concerned that I will never get the interview due to the large number of highly qualified applicants in this job market. Any further info welcome.

 

[firstthird]

originally posted by bozt45

I have the type and am waiting for the app window to open. I have heard that if you meet the hiring requirements you WILL get interviewed.

That is old information I'm pretty sure (I don't work in the People department or even for SWA but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night and I have been in the pool for a while and absorbing info off flightinfo for too long).

It used to be that if you met the requirements to apply, SWA said they would interview you. Interview order went by when you applied with the caveat that they had two stacks, a typed and a not typed stack. They would exhaust the typed stack prior to calling non-typed guys.

What has changed? A while back they changed the wording on their hiring page to indicate that they were doing a competitive screen, presumably meaning that a guy with barely 1000 hours pic in a single turbine (think Caravan not Harrier, since Harrier would fall under the fighter rubric of you were good enough to fly by yourself in a complex, unforgiving machine) might not be as competitive as someone with 3000 hours in a heavy, multi-engine. But the fact is, SWA has some of the toughest, highest minimums of anyone out there. Most companies require 1000 pic, not 1000 turbine PIC, a big difference when you consider that you could have 1000 turbine SIC in the right seat of a B1900 and 1000 C172 PIC and meet the mins at most other careers (well, I guess for Fedex and JBlu you'd need that SIC time to be in something slightly larger to meet the 20,000 MGTW requirement).

So, now they say it is a competitive screen. But, most people seem to think that anyone already with their applications in, especially those with types, are gonna get the first calls. (if only because the new online app system might not be ready in time for pending interviews but probably because SWA is great about being fair and doing the right thing)

I wouldn't worry about your lack of total time or 121 time. Most airlines know that military time is equivalent to 121 for most intents and purposes. Besides, there isn't much you can do about your qualifications, they are what they are. You should be trying to stay current and stay in flying (obviously) because that will keep you the most competitive for wherever you get a chance to interview.

Back in the day, SWA would not even take updates to your application becase frankly, they didn't give a d a m n. No, actually it was beacuse either you met the minimums when you applied and thus had your place in line for an interview, or you didn't and they probably wrote you a nice letter asking you to reapply when you did. Since everyone got an interview eventually, no need to deal with all the paperwork and hassle that updating requires for them or the prospective applicant.

Short version, with a type and your times, if you get your application in when the window opens, it seems like you'd have a good chance of getting called as soon as anyone does that puts their app in at that time.

 

[sunburn]

A type rating just for an interview is extremely daunting.

I personally know two individuals who paid for the type. One made it to the interview and didn't get hired. The other never got the call. Both of these individuals had various forms of finanical aid which made the type rating much more financially feasible, compared to the likes of me (who would use up the remainder of my available credit card).

I did go to the Air Inc conference in ATL in Jun. The HR lady who was there was very vague about the requirement for the type before the interview, basically saying there had not been any decision made.

I know that is not much to go on. I'm happy that they will be hiring, and I'd love to have the opportunity to work for SWA, but it is very scarry paying for that type when you are unemployed already, with little hope of even getting an interview.

 

[ivauir]

gut check

sunburn - I feel you pain brother - but one of the reasons for the type requirement is that it seperates those who REALLY want to work at SWA and those that just want a job. If you go get the type and are otherwise competeive: you'll get interviewed. If SWA is really where you want to be you'll get here - there are many pilots that had to interview two or even three times to get hired here. It is a personal choice, and it is a lot of money to invest. But if you aren't willing to make that investment you have eliminated yourself.

Best of luck, I really think this place is worth it.

 

[enigma]

A type rating just for an interview is extremely daunting.

II know that is not much to go on. I'm happy that they will be hiring, and I'd love to have the opportunity to work for SWA, but it is very scarry paying for that type when you are unemployed already, with little hope of even getting an interview.

I feel your pain, I payed for the type and didn't make it. I am in line to try again, so all is not lost, and the type did help me get the job I currently have.

I would like to add one thought to everyone, not specifically to sunburn. The requirement for a type rating isn't necessarily in place because SWA wanted people to ante up $7000 just for a seat at the table. I don't know for sure, but I think that the avenues to obtain a rating in the early seventies when this policy was instituted (if my source is correct) were very few. Simply put, either you had worked for another 737 carrier or had military T-43 time. SWA did not institute the policy with an eye towards people making money in the 737 type rating business. Bottom line, SWA doesn't care where you received the rating, or who payed for it; they just require that you have it.

I personally consider the rating mills to be to my advantage. Without them, I would never have had the ability to gain the rating (and apply for my dream employer), because I wasn't military (poor eyes) and didn't want to have to work for Vanguard to get a type.

regards,
enigma

 

[HOUMAN]

Boz,
If SWA is going to hire 430 in 2004, then they will need (assuming 190 poolies), an additional 240 pilots. I believe you stand a really good chance of getting an interview, once they start again. Keep hanging in there.

 

[enigma]

Re: gut check

If SWA is really where you want to be you'll get here - there are many pilots that had to interview two or even three times to get hired here.

ivauir, I know that your reply wasn't intended for me, but I still want to say, "thanks for the encouragement". I certainly hope that the third time's the charm. I wanted to work for SWA so bad that when I interviewed the first time, I didn't even have apps in with other carriers. If I was qualified for SWA, I was obviously qualified for most other major carriers, and I really would have rather stayed corporate if I couldn't get on with SWA. (I left corporate because the supervisor I worked for didn't appreciate may attempts to go be one of those, "pampered pansy airline jerks")

I hope that my desire to join you, shows well when I get the third chance.

Thanks again,
enigma

 

[CoopDog]

Good luck

I hear you Enigma. Hope to see you in the pool soon.

 

[Helmsmen]

Has SWA ever shown any favour toward pilots that they have interviewed before? I have the type and interviewed back in 1992 I think. Then they changed the PIC requirement so I was unable to apply for a long time. Now I am very well qualified and on file. So I was just wondering if interviewing before gets me any brownie points.

Helmsmen

 

[ivauir]

Has SWA ever shown any favour toward pilots that they have interviewed before

I don't think there are any stats on this and my best guess is they don't track it. This is good news in some ways because it means no one will prejudge you based on previous results. I think having interviewed before works in your favor because you will know what to expect and hopefully will be less nervous.

Stay the course enigma - it really is a great place to work.

I have said it before, but it seems to need repeating - get interview prep! You've already invest a ton of time and money in your career - get the coaching you need! I used Rob Beeks, but he is not the only one out there.

 

[BHS]

I have been flying the 73 for 5 years now. Now what do I do?

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Hey guys

Im not sure what a brownie point is...

Is that like a toast point?

Im not to sure what dead fish eggs would taste like on a brownie..

Anyway..

A number of folks have asked the question of weither or not they look at you differently during the hiring process if you have interviewed before and failed to get the job offer..

The answer is yes and no..

No..they dont count it against you..
And yes...It could effect your interview..

In past conversations with interviewers they have all said that they would suggest to anyone that failed to pass the interview the first time to reapply..No harm no foul..

Now heres the interesting part..

SWA has always been a people company and hire you based upon the type of person you are..In the past ,they would use the interview process as well as calling up the people on your application to get an idea of who you are..

When you go to interview the second time..Or perhaps even the third time..they interviewers will pay a little more attention to some aspects of the interview..Im told they may try to focus more on why you failed the first time and try to see why you really want to work for SWA..
Two interviewers told me that they would think more highly of you just due to the fact that you didnt give up and were serious enough to give it a second try..

Now..The most important part about the second attempt..

You must do everything possible to learn why you failed and take corrective action..

I was told some time ago the three top reasons for for not getting a job offer..

You failed to ask for the job..

To be more specific...
You failed to make clear in the interviewers mind that you really wanted to work for SWA..

You werent prepared for the interview process..

Showing up in a sloppy looking suit,log books in disarray,paper work not presented in the required fashion,no interview prep,didnt take advantage of the "gouge"..ect..ect..

And lastly..

Some event in your past raised red flags..Or something was found in the background checks..

This is not a killer item unless you failed to properly explain and document the event..
Everybody that has worked at this profession long enough to get to the point of applying to a major most likely will have some training failure,accident,or incident..

How well you document the facts and present your side of the story will make the difference between being a killer item and a non event..

The stories of folks finding out stuff about themselves only after SWA completes their background checks are endless and some of them are just plan stupid..

Dont let this happen to you..If there is any questions about your past then deal with them now..

Ive been told in the past folks that fail to get hired may call the People Department and ask about the failure..Im told that they wont be very specific,but will point you towards your problem area..

I hope this helps..

Mike

 

[Helmsmen]

When I interviewed the first time I was called back for a physical exam. I passed the physical, which was no more demanding than a first class medical. About two weeks later I actually got a letter from the People Dept. saying that I was not hired because they were concerned about my lack of PIC on large jets. At the time I was a F/E for TWA. They suggested that I re-apply when I had more PIC time. Then the application minimums changed to 1000 hours of PIC jet time. The industry and TWA being what they were, it took until 2002 to colllect 1200 PIC hours on the B717, B727, and MD80. I then just got my application in under the wire for the April cut-off. I wonder if they will even have a record of my old application and interview? It was over a deade ago.

Helmsmen

 

[enigma]

Hey guys

..................

A number of folks have asked the question of weither or not they look at you differently during the hiring process if you have interviewed before and failed to get the job offer..

.................

SWA has always been a people company and hire you based upon the type of person you are..In the past ,they would use the interview process as well as calling up the people on your application to get an idea of who you are..

When you go to interview the second time..Or perhaps even the third time..they interviewers will pay a little more attention to some aspects of the interview..Im told they may try to focus more on why you failed the first time and try to see why you really want to work for SWA..
Two interviewers told me that they would think more highly of you just due to the fact that you didnt give up and were serious enough to give it a second try..

...............

I hope this helps..

Mike

Mike, as always we really appreciate your time and input. The flightinfo longtimers have heard this before, so I'll keep it short. The first time I applied, I made it all the way to the drug test, which told me that I must have passed the interview and be SWA type person but maybe not competive enough for the selection committee. The second time, I apparently never made it out of the interview processl Of course I finished all three interviews, but nothing happened after that point. No calls to my recommends, nor previous employers, nothing. BTW, I gave the almost exact same scenario storys both interviews

I became re-eligible to apply just before the window closed and am now one of the 6 to 8 hundred typed guys hoping for an interview.

Just in case there are others in my position, I would appreciate it if you could expand on your statement about people not getting the job because they didn't ask for it. I don't remember a time in the process where I was given an opportunity to "ask for the job". Each of the three interviewers did end his/her session by asking if I had any questions for them. Should this time be utilized to "ask for the job". I tried to ask questions of them that would increase my knowledge of the company.

regards,
enigma

BTW, as previously stated. I WILL go to Beeks or his equivilent before the next interview.

 

[InHot]

Enigma,

I got hired on my third try. My first two interviews experiences with SWA were similiar to yours. Made it to the board on #1, then nothing on #2.

For #3 I did the Bob Beeks thing - I think that helped.

As for asking for the job - when asked if I had anything to add I told each interviewer on #3 that if I wasn't hired this time I would be back.

Don't know for sure what tipped the balance on #3 - Bob Beeks, my "Arnuuld" imitation, or having my SWA contacts speak to their chief pilots on my behalf just before the decision board - hard to say.

Just give it your all

Best of luck - 3rd time's a charm!

Seeya on the line!

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Hmmm..

A couple of thoughts come to mind..

First off..Try to remember one thing..

This is YOUR interview..Take advantage of that fact when you can.

I feel that there are several ways to make it clear to someone that you want to work here..

Lets assume that you didnt follow the interview prep recomendations and at no point during the interview did you make it VERY clear..

When they ask you if you have any questions for them..This..IMHO..is your chance to close the interview on your terms..I would have a few questions ready for just that moment..

These questions can be used as an opener to allow you to clear up the interviewers mind on any doubts he/she may have about you wanting the job..

If somehow you find that you dont have this opprotunity..For G@ds sake!!!What ever you do..Dont let them out of the room until you do this.....

Look em square in the eye..shake his or her hand and say in the most humble but firm voice you can manage..

"I thank you for your time..I hope thru my answers to your questions that ive made it clear to you just how much i want to be here...If I somehow have left any doubt in your mind..Please..Let me just say that I want to work for SWA more than any other airline in the world and i hope to hear from you very soon"..Or something to this effect..

This is how I ended all three of my interviews..

Buy the best interview prep you can get and practice..practice..practice..

Mike

 

[ivauir]

Each of the three interviewers did end his/her session by asking if I had any questions for them. Should this time be utilized to "ask for the job". I tried to ask questions of them that would increase my knowledge of the company

I had no questions for my interviewers, but I figured this was an opportunity for me to speak my piece- so I did. With all three interviewers I calmly and sincerely said something to the effect of ..."No, I don't have any questions, but I do want to thank you for the opportunity to talk to you today. I couldn't be more exited about the possibility of working for Southwest. Thanks!" I did not use a script for this but I spoke from the heart and I said it while shaking their hand and looking them in the eye. I can't say it didn't make me nervous, and I don't know how important it was, but a friend I trust told me to do it.

I do think their is some psycholgy at work. If their last impresion is of a sincere, up front person asking for the job (reinforced by physical and eye contanct) I think it will stick.

 

[Torpid]

gouge

We all know that the application process is going to change but does anybody know if the interview process is going to change? Are they going to stick to the "tell me about a time when..." or "what would you do if..." type questions? There's lots of good gouge out there that I've been looking over for the last three years so I hope it stays the same.

 

[ivauir]

There have been rumors on the line (ie they told me at recurrent, my best friend's wife, or I have a REALLY small seniority number and "Bubba" says...) that the interview is going to be less People Department oriented and more pilot oriented. It has been said that the new system will include a sim ride.
I am not sure what to make of this talk - my guess is that the traditional SWA interview will still be huge no matter what (if any) changed are incorpertated.

Until there is some offical announcment I wouldn't change my stategy if I were still looking. Stay current, get some sories together and make sure all of your records are complete and organized.

By the same token, DO NOT MEMORISE THE GAUGE OR ANSWERS TO THE GAUGE!!!! The key is to have answers to the obvious questions, have a few stories lined up that fill many possible questions, and then ANSWER THE QUESTION THEY ASK. Be yourself and be sincere. Your stories should help tell the listener about you, but they do not have to be "Chuck Yeager" stories. You are not going to impress any body with your tales of daring do. You might just impress someone with who you really are and what it might be like to spend a four day with you.

 

[CoopDog]

No Sim rides

It has been said that the new system will include a sim ride.

I tried to paste a pdf file here from Higher Power, but the "August News Flash" attachment I got from them said that after careful review, SWA will not conduct a Sim Eval during the interview process.

I had heard that rumor too from a friend at SWA, but I doubt if HPA would put it in writing unless they were pretty darn sure it wasn't going to happen. They would benefit tremendously from Sim preps if it were going to happen.

Just passing on what I read....

Coop