SWA Pilot Suspended

[A1FlyBoy]

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A Southwest Airlines pilot who became involved in an incident at a security checkpoint has been suspended for six weeks without pay.

Larry Hargis was suspended for his role in a dispute with security screeners at Will Rogers World Airport, said Jon Weaks, president of the Southwest Airlines Pilots Association.

But Weaks said Thursday that the suspension indicates a larger problem, and that the union is still investigating the case.

"And we will make sure that the pilot's rights are upheld," Weaks said. "We are gravely concerned about the growing number of security-related incidents involving pilots and our own company personnel. We are seeing the same incidents after conferring with other airlines."

Airline spokesman Ed Stewart said he could not discuss the action taken, but he said a reasonable decision was made.

"We have reached a resolution," he said. "The pilot is still with us. He hasn't been terminated. We can't go any further. The chief pilot felt appropriate action was taken."

According to an Oklahoma City police report, Hargis became agitated about the time it took to search his bag at a security checkpoint on Feb. 3. Hargis asked screeners twice to search his bag so he could walk to his aircraft, the report stated.

At that point, a National Guard member assigned to airport security asked Hargis for identification. Hargis lifted the identification badge on his shirt but would not remove the card when the Guard member asked, the report stated.

When the Guard member grabbed the tag from Hargis' shirt, Hargis responded by grabbing the identification tag on the guard member's shirt, the report stated. Police then arrived and mediated the dispute.

According to the report, Hargis told officers he was not upset that his bag was being searched, but that it wasn't searched immediately.

After talking to Southwest ground personnel, Hargis made a phone call, during which he stepped into the hall and began loudly telling passengers at another gate why the plane was late, the report said.

Hargis was not allowed to fly and was escorted from the security area. When he returned in civilian clothes to fly as a passenger, a Southwest supervisor would not allow him on the flight, the report stated.

 

[jetexas]

There needs to be a way to positively identify crews as being crews so that we can go to work in peace. Having to go through security numerous times a day (much more than the average Joe passenger) and taking off shoes, hat, keys, tie, wallet, glasses, pens, belts, epulets, etc. is ridiculous since we fly the planes!

 

[datafox]

Personally, I feel this SWA pilots was probably acting like a real red-neck fool.

I've been through security at every major northeast airport hundreds of times in the last 5 months and I've not had a problem one time.

If security asks me for my badge, I give it to them. If security asks for my shoes, they can have those too. Want to look in my briefcase? Go ahead.

I've seen so many pilots get upset at security checkpoints, and every time there has been NO reason for it. Screeners are just doing their jobs. They don't need a attitude, just like we don't need a attitude from some irate passenger.

The arrogance and superiority complex of pilots has shown its ugly head. We should be ashamed of ourselves.

As a model to the traveling public, we should remain cool, we should remain professional. If a passenger see's a pilot acting like a moron...that passenger is probably more likely to act like a moron as well. It damages our whole profession. What do passengers think, "this childish schmuck is flying me around?".

If a pilot has a problem, do what the security personnel ask and after he/she passes the checkpoint talk to a manager, talk to a ground security coordinator, talk to the union. But, act up and almost get arrested! Ridiculous.

The guy in the article is probably very immature and probably has other egotistical/psychological issues.

 

[Av8trxx]

"There needs to be a way to positively identify crews as being crews"

On that note, my best friend (a WN Capt) told me he had a HP pilot jumpseating out of SLC two days ago. He took a seat in the cabin. Out of curiosity, he asked the HP guy why he was taking Southwest. The reply was that HP ticket agents failed a FAA check and many did not know how to determine if pilots requesting the jumpseat were actual HP employees. Because of that, jumpseating on their own airline was now prohibited (guess their cabin was full) until they can develop a means of positively IDing crew members. Hmmmmm. Anyone else with more details?

 

[A1FlyBoy]

PILOT ID CARDS

Airlines/FAA need to issue frequently updated and accurate ID cards for cockpit and cabin crewmembers. There is no reason the professional crews need to be subjected to the constant removal of personal items: tie clips, pens, hats, shoes, etc.

If a quality and updated ID card swipe or eye scan was put in place much of the friction/annoyances for our good guys could be avoided.

 

[racerX]

I was going through security the other day with a military guy behind me. He was griping like mad about being searched. "I fought in desert storm and I never..." I was in front of him taking off my shoes and belt. I looked at him and said "Hey dude, I'm gonna' fly the plane, if I can take it, so can you." I love showing the public that no one is free from suspicion. Pilots can do bad things too. By the way, that metal spiral in my "little red book" is a bitch through the metal detector. I can't wait for my shoes to wear out so I can buy Loafers!

 

[ukcats]

Hey datafox, you might be a butt pirate, and enjoy the daily anal cavitity search, but the rest of us don't. Profiling is the answer.

 

[Simon Says]

Datafox you are the fool and you should be ashamed of yourself for posting such propaganda!

I WILL SAY AGAIN.............PILOTS GOING TO WORK SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE SCREENED! There are ways to prove to any Joe Blow that we are working crew members.

Second giving pilots a harder time at security to show the public how safe the airports are now is utterly ridiculus.

 

[datafox]

Simon Says,

Dude, don't put words into my mouth. Re-read my post.

#1: I never said that airports or security was safe.

#2: I didn't say that the treatment pilots get at security is fair either.

Pilots must act professional, especially when in public view. This bickering and acting like children I've seen at security checkpoints is damaging to our profession. There are better ways to deal with the security issue than to start yelling at some $6/hr immigrant or an 18 y/o guardsman.

 

[Simon Says]

Datafox,

I agree we all need to be professinals at the security check points, but there is a limit of humiliation for a normal human being. You may not have seen abuse against flight crews at check points, but I have.

Case in point, I try to put everything I carry through the X-Ray machine so I do not BEEP going through the metal detector. Last week I went through and I beeped so the security folks had to wand me down. My wallet that had several hundered dollars in cash was sitting in basket on a table 15 feet away from me. I requested that my wallet be placed within arms reach away from me, and they denied my request. At that time I requested to see the Officer at the check point, told him that I wanted my wallet within arms reach or that he could watch my wallet and be responible for it. He said no to both of those requests. So I told him that I was going to dismiss myself from the security screening process and asked to be escorted out of the secure area. Which he granted. I called my Chief Pilot. He called the airport. The airport police eventually agreed that I may have my wallet within arms reach of me. I went through the security check again with an officer escorting me. The flight was delayed 36 minutes.

This is just one of many headaches I go through when I attemp security. I will be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ed if someone denies my constitutional right of proper searches. Once again I am hot under the collar about all of this, but I will and do handle it in a professinal manner.

And I have yet to meet any Red-necked fool SWA pilot.

 

[datafox]

You are right. I was suprised that it was a SWA pilot. I am truly impressed with their operations and pilots. They are darn good people.

 

[Diesel8]

I'm glad to see that so many other pilots feel the way I do about this. It's really crazy that at my domicile, I go through this. I don't have to go through screening at the checkpoint, since (thank the lord) my airport ID lets me though a side door. HOWEVER, if I jumpseat after work, I will be searched and my bag searched by the gate staff. This is ASININE since I can just swipe my card and WALK out onto the ramp. It make NO sense. As for going through the screening checkpoints at outstations, some stations let us through the back door, others don't. That is stupid too. Why can't we be issued a NATIONAL ID for all flight crews so we don't have to put up with this. It would be SOOOO easy to do. We all go through the ten year backround check...we are probably a lower risk than the people who are searching us. At my home, (an outstation) they sometimes search me even though they KNOW me, but they just pretend to make the passengers THINK things are better. It is crazy. Things have to change NOW.

 

[jetexas]

"You are right. I was suprised that it was a SWA pilot. I am truly impressed with their operations and pilots. They are darn good people."

The same thing may have happened to the same SWA pilot 200 times. You never know. SWA is great. I have never met a SWA pilot that talked poorly about their company and they are good folk (though I'm sure there are a few not happy).
Regardless, every person has a breaking point. I am sure we all have stood at security getting the "rub down", thinking "man, this is friggin ridiculous, but I have to play this game". Then you throw in a slow bag search, taking shoes off, numerous legs that day in bad wx, etc., - anybody can get redfaced mad about it.
WE NEED NATIONAL ID's!
However, the airlines would likely have to pay for it and, therefore, I doubt it will happen unless the FAA forces the issue.
Pretty ridiculous how our pilots' licenses look like 1950's drivers licenses ay?

 

[Birddog]

I was able to get an insight to the screeners perspective while getting my daily grope at security the other day (it must have been the zipper in my pants). The screener asked me if "you pilots" (as if I could answer for all of us) feel safer due to the increased security. When I told him no, he was absolutely amazed. He started to explain how they were being so much more aggressive about screening and how I would not believe the things they took from people. When I told him that there was no possible way to confiscate all the things people could use as improvised weapons and that I thought a better answer was improved cockpit security. Before I left for the gate he told me that if I had been through the training he had, I might see things differently. At that point I left for the gate, but it was a interesting look at the people who are supposed to be looking out for the security at the terminal. Fly safe.

 

[earlthesquirrel]

Hey Simonsays;

Please explain to me your constitutional rights concerning security checks and searches at airports. I don't think that not allowing your wallet in arms reach violates them. Why don't you put your bills in your pocket if you are so concerned about them?

 

[AWACoff]

Jetexas (and others this may apply to),
due to being furloughed I may be out of the loop. But since when did we have to go through securities so many times a day? I would pass through security once at the start of my day in ORD and then after that I had no need to leave a secure area (including outstations). Are you going to a mom and pop sandwich shop off the airport during your turns or something?
Puzzled in Wisconsin

 

[wildbill]

Maybe one day there will be this realization that because there are so many dedicated professionals willing to put their lives on the line daily to fly those airplanes, these screeners have jobs.
This also includes the FAA. Does the FAA have a job because they are down here or is it because we are all up there? What would happen to all these government workers should the pool of pilots decided to take a few weeks off to get their "mental attitude" right. I believe in security, but all of us are being pushed to the brink with this so called "high state of alert". Just another way to sell newspapers and create jobs for those people who cannot find one. The scare tactics and high handed attitudes in the name of "security" need to be changed. Just my two cents worth....

 

[DougCorp-9]

Hey Simon

Simon,

You mean to tell me that you delayed all your passengers 36 minutes because you can't figure out how to get through security? Did you ever think of just leaving your wallet in your pocket and holding it while they wanded you? Or how about taking the cash out of your wallet and putting it in your pocket? Paper money doesn't beep. You must have looked like a fool. All of you people on here that are bitching about the security need to realize that complaining to the screeners or guardsmen will do nothing except make you look like a fool. They don't make the rules and bitching at them will not change anything.

 

[skydash]

The sad fact of this situation is there is no standardization at these security checkpoints.I go through BWI security at least twice a week.It is an area void of structure and competence. I waited(I timed it)4 minutes standing at the x-ray machine in my socks,while the one security professional scolded another at the next machine for having the audacity to listen to "Puff Daddy" because "he weren't no real rapper". When I asked what the holdup was,she just told me "I'm going as fast as I can". I see this type of bull$*!# at a majority of screening areas I pass through. It creates a cumulatively negative effect after awhile. I do however also see excellent screening places with motivated curteous personnel,but they are the minority. Federalization is nothing more than another government jobs program,which will do nothing to improve overall security. Most of the individuals who are working screening machines now will simply be rehired,regardless of the new guidelines(most of which have all been removed). If we're REALLY serious about passenger screening,we'd better throw political correctness out the door,and adopt a program such as EL AL's and hire COMPETENT individuals to do these jobs,and for $35,000 there's no reason why we can't.

 

[Simon Says]

OK....OK.....that came out wrong. First of all you cannot be searched unless there is probable cause or you consent. Going through security is an implied consent of search. Since it is a consentual search you may stop the search at any time.

I still put my wallet along with all of my other stuff through security (mabey I should hold onto my wallet). My point being was that I did not want my wallet to walk away, and they refused to put it by me so I can keep an eye on it. This was not an unresonable request by any means. I believe they did not honor my request because they felt that I was questioning their authority. And to be honest with you all I will question their authority and their procedures. They are not the all-master of security. I will be GD if they tell me that I cannot be able to keep an eye on my wallet or that no one will take responsability for it when I am getting wanded.

Absolutely I delayed the passengers because I could not get through security in a timely manner. By the way I did tell them that I had a problem getting through security and that is why I delayed the flight. All of you people that are walking on egg shells going through security need to step up to the plate and say something if the security people are doing something wrong. Just do not interfere with their duties or you will be arrested.

I did not look like a fool because no one except the security personell and police officer knew what my problem was. I was talking in a low voice, and not making a scene. I simply dismissed myself from the screening process. (As what ALPA reccomends) I also know that there is a fine line between questioning people at the security check point and "interfeering with there duties" which is now a federal offense.

I know bitching at the security people wont change anything, but delaying flights due to a "non-standerized" system of security screening will.

Any takers on that????????????Like I said before "bring it on"

 

[ScRaMJeT]

An actress had it happen.

It can happen,

An actress going through security at Lax had 7000 dollars stolen out of her purse. Fortunately the cameras saw that it was one of the screeners and the screener was arrested so it can happen. Her name was Sandra something, (Even 7000 dollars is alot to a multi millionaire)

The supervisor would not allow the pilot on the aircraft. Now we see that these gate agents are not always our friends...beware. If they get an opportunity to humiliate you they will. They are not your friends, so tread with care.

 

[1900laker]

I think we have been saying the same thing for months.

Maybe ALPA and other unions need to organize a nationwide informational picketing right outside of airport security checkpoints to get the point home that we need national ID's, separate screening/access points, etc. I would gladly spend my day off at BWI to point out that lunacy. Please pay attention to all of the complaints about BWI. They are quite numerous on this board and I am here to second each one I have read. If these screeners are supposed to be the ultimate in providing for the safety of the passengers and crew that board these planes, then by god, lets get some QUALIFIED people and some COMMON SENSE.

 

[Flydaplane]

Okay as a furloughed pilot who now (temporarily) works for the new TSA, formerly the FAA security division (not FSDO inspectors) I'll try to answer your reasonable questions to the best of my ability. First off I took this job to try and help improve security for my profession (that and it pays the bills while awaiting recall). Remember I also am an ALPA member, and am constrained on many issues by the importance to not release confidential material.
First off, if you have any problems at the security line, request to talk to the GSC (ground security coordinator). These are Air Carrier employees who must be at all checkpoints whenever they are open (if you don't see any air carrier rep contact any law enforcement officer and have them close the checkpoint until there is one present.)
Secondly, all screeners have been told that flight crew are not subject to the random screening that is too be done continuously at all checkpoints. However, if you have something in your bag that is suspect (i.e. a pair of scissors) then your bag will be searched. If you alarm the metal detector, you will be hand wanded. Many of us have shanks in our shoes, I go through the checkpoints 10-15 times a day and mine are always going off. I know they will, and I subject myself to the hand wanding. It doesn't hurt a bit and it only takes a few seconds. Don't blame the screeners for this, they are given a specific set of rules that they have to follow. Many of you'd be surprised how egotistical you sound saying that they are exacting revenge or trying to humiliate you.
If you do have to be hand wanded the screener is supposed to allow you to view your items on the x-ray belt while your being screened. If they won't do this have them call the GSC and explain it to him/her.
Oh, we know that you could crash the plane if you wanted to, and it probably wouldn't be very smart to announce that repeatedly at the checkpoint (a la US Airways), however, the screeners don't know much about airlines and if someone walked through with a Bin Laden Airlines ID badge and a pilots uniform on they'd think they were actually flying instead of a terrorist. Anyone can get a pilots uniform and many have been stolen along with ID's in the past year (I'd check more than one form of ID for any jumpseaters if I were you).
I'm all for a national ID for pilots. I used to commute to work and not being able to ride in the Delta/Southwest cockpit sure made it hard sometimes. Until that gets done (ALPA is working with the FAA but it will take time) be brave and go through screening like the rest of us. You probably only do it once or twice a day in reality (unless your in some terribly designed airport like MCI). You don't know how dumb you look when you make a scene at the checkpoint, trust me I've observed many pilots who think their gods gift and how dare you make me take my shoes off in front of the public.
Remember screeners are trained to do the same for everyone, they're not singling you out, in fact most screeners hate screening flight crews because they bitch and moan so much.
As far as the southwest pilot, if his own gate agent refused to let him fly, obviously the guy was more than the angel he made himself out to be.
Remember the screeners will all have to be federalized by Nov. 17th hopefully the testing, training, and hiring requirements will weed out the bad ones. Until then, you should see more standardization in the coming weeks (TSA just took over the supervision of screening from the carriers, but nothing can change overnight).
Keep your eyes open for terrorists, legally we can't profile, but we all do. There are many cells still out there and there is a lot of suspicious activity going on. Go to the FBI website and print out pictures. Carry them with you and look at people's faces. You never know what you might find, the life you save could be your own.
Flame me if you feel it makes you big, any legitimate questions I'll try and answer...I'm with the FAA (actually now it's the TSA) and I'm here to help you. (Ha, Ha).

 

[James007]

Sweet Jesus I thought since the federal government took over security it was all supposed to be nirvana! Notice that it was an emergency that they had to take over for safety, but no rush what so ever once they actually did? Do you feel safer? Or do you feel better that the welfare wannabe making 6 dollars an hour are now federal employees that are now gaurenteed good wages without fear of ever being fired? Its simply an example of looks over substance. Create a nation wide standard for security ? Nah just federalise em to fool the public into feeling better. Im disgusted how about you?

 

[EagleRJ]

I agree that pilots shouldn't get angry at screeners for APPROPRIATE and LEGAL requests. They're just doing their jobs. If, however, the screener is abusive, fondles my flight attendant, or is obviously singling out the flight crew for harassment, I won't hesitate to call him on it. Hopefully any flight crewmember who witnesses a security breach or illegal conduct by a security screener will not hesitate to tell someone.

 

[Simon Says]

EagleRJ,

If you won't let the screeners fondle your flight attendent. Can I?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Good for you for standing up for yourself and your crew!

Flydaplane,

You do make some good points, and that is the way it should be, but there is still far too much abuse going on. (Dare I say abuse from both sides)

 

[Flydaplane]

First off, James007 you need to think before you type. THEY ARE NOT FEDERAL EMPLOYEES, they are the same screeners as before. The main change that happenefd Sunday was that instead of having the air carrier pay companies like Huntleigh and Argenbright, now you are with you ticket surcharge (doesn't that make you happy???) The govt did not renew the contract with Argenbright and they will be phased out slowly over the next 3-6 months (even a weak screener is better than no screener). Believe it or not, some (maybe a few) are actually goos at what they do (next time your at a CTX machine try and distinguish what they do).
The key to the future is that they will be tested and held accountable (i.e. fired or retrained) if they don't perform well.
If you have problems with any screeners take immediate action, ask to talk to their CSS(that's their managers) and the GSC(air carrier rep at each checkpoint). If its something serious like groping see if there is a camera on the chekpoint (most airports nowdays have them) and request that they review the tape (its like a CVR if you don't pull the tape it may get taped over.
Hope this helps.........

 

[A1FlyBoy]

I wish there was a quality private security firm out there that offered good pay and benifits, a firm whose employee base is not shared with McDonalds, who would attract educated individuals with a degree of common sense.

Companies like 'Argenbrite' and their competition wouldn't not only be phased out, but put out of business for good for being the security frauds that they are. Several major markets previously banned Argenbrite from even having a contract in their city due to their mistakes.

Nothing the FAA now does will improve until the new "FEDERAL EMPLOYEES" are employed under a QUALITY private firm.

 

[ifly4food]

This is ridiculous. A pilot asks the screeners to follow the rules and is ignored. He rightfully becomes angry and is punished.
What an abuse of power by the security personnel. What's even more sad is that Southwest Airlines, a company known for taking care of its employees refused to stand up for this pilot.