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SWA, PHL and JBLU "Hot Flash"

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FDJ2

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Posts
3,908
Hot Flash - November 3, 2003

Airports With Less Than A Million Passengers: You're Now Out.
Southwest & Philadelphia:
The New Low-Fare Service Environment

After almost ten years of being able to pretty much call its own shots up and down the East Coast, Southwest now has to look over its shoulder. JetBlue is now firmly in the game, and it's a factor that will change the way Southwest plans its operation in the months and years ahead.

Southwest's decision to enter Philadelphia signals a whole lot more than just another expansion city for the Dallas-based airline. Up until now, they had no significant, well-focused, and large-scale low-fare competition in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic regions. As a result, Southwest had the luxury of being able to pick and choose new markets as it saw fit. Not any more. For the first time, Southwest has meaningful direct competition that it must address.

Southwest is facing what may be its biggest challenge since Braniff and Texas International tried to freeze it out of Texas in the mid-1970s. Back then, Southwest faced outright collusion from two dinosaur airlines. Today, Southwest now faces a competitor that can - and fully intends to - successfully dive into the core East Coast traffic base which has been pretty much Southwest's exclusive playground for nearly a decade. And it's just beginning. Increasingly, consumers are going to have a choice. Not just between mega carriers and Southwest, but between competing low-fare airlines. Specifically, between Southwest and jetBlue.

The PHL move is clear proof that the jetBlue challenge not been lost on the folks down at Love Field HDQ. Some of the usual lightweight analysts will spout that it's an attack on US Airways. Forget it, US is just a bystander caught in what will become an increasingly nasty firefight between WN and jetBlue.

Remember, Southwest didn't get where it is by relying on a Ouija board. Too many analysts have misread the well-publicized and well-humored antics of the airline's chairman, and mistake that to mean that Southwest is just a big, fun flying furball with low fares. It's a whole lot more than that. Southwest is a tough, well-run airline with management that knows the business. Especially the low-fare airline business.

And that means they do not take the jetBlue threat lightly.

Entry of jetBlue = New WN Strategies. It's clear now that jetBlue will be a long term player. More ominously, it's not a low-fare airline. Instead, it's a low-fare airline with excellence in service - which is the formula on which WN built its business. Like Southwest, jetBlue is an airline that focuses on brand loyalty, not just dirt-cheap fares, to build its future.

Let's look at what Southwest is probably considering in regard to jetBlue:

Big time jetBlue expansion is inevitable. Southwest knows that jetBlue has over 200 airplanes on order. A lot of iron that will need to go someplace. Southwest knows that jetBlue will need to fly these machines in markets other than just JFK. And this will inevitably put jetBlue in direct competition for many of the traffic flows that Southwest now dominates. East Coast. West Coast. And in between, too.


Core-city airport service. The entry of jetBlue into Boston Logan was not insignificant to Southwest. It directly threatens much of the traffic base that Southwest enjoys at at MHT and PVD. Some of the reverse leakage driving out of Boston to fly WN is fixin' to get re-reversed back to Logan, which previously had no large-scale viable competition to Southwest. And although it really isn't a New York City airport, the same is likely happening at Islip. Cost-focused consumers in eastern Nassau and in western Suffolk Counties didn't have significant low-fare options from LGA or JFK. Now they do, and dodging potholes on the Long Island Expressway toward JFK becomes much more attractive. This isn't to say that Southwest will enter more core-city airports in the Northeast, only that jetBlue has the potential to dig into WN's existing traffic base.


Service quality. It bears repeating - jetBlue does not have passengers. More correctly, it has built a cult of travelers rabidly loyal to the airline. Not much different than what Southwest has done, but jetBlue has raised the stakes, with things WN doesn't have - in-flight television, wider seats (that's the A-320 factor), legroom, and yes, seat assignment. This is where Southwest is vulnerable. It's understandable that WN is reticent to adjust its successful service formula, but this time they really do need to take a hard look at comparative on-board service levels.
This time, it's for real - jetBlue is serious competition. This is not the United Shuttle. This is not Continental Lite. This is not MetroJet. It can be argued that the consumer may well begin to compare what he gets at each airline. At Southwest, he needs to be at the ticket counter way early to assure a boarding priority that minimizes the chances of ending up with a middle seat between two people from a culture that has not yet discovered soap. At jetBlue, the consumer doesn't have that anxiety. He has a seat assignment. In a wider seat. With a free TV to divert his attention, middle seat or not.

With jetBlue in the picture, for the first time Southwest is in danger of having the perception of offering less for the dollar than the competition.

Planning flexibility. Another dangerous competitive sign coming from jetBlue is that carrier's recent attempt to enter the Atlanta market from California. Apparently, it failed. And that's what's been missed by a lot of analysts. When it failed, jetBlue simply left. No chest-beating. No public recriminations. They just took their A-320s and went someplace else to fly another day. Two messages here, both indicating a very tough competitor: Little emotion, and the flexibility to move quickly when things don't work out.


Fleet flexibility. The addition of Embraer E-190s will be a major competitive advantage for jetBlue. Despite the comments from some ill-informed media types, these are not "regional" jets, but instead mainline airliners - think of 737-500s with better economics. For those of us who have actually been on the Embraer 170 prototype, it's very clear that the -190 is a 100-seat mainline jet that will put jetBlue in a position to enter markets and adjust capacity with extreme flexibility.
Bottom line: jetBlue is now the standard to which low-fare airlines must aspire. Including Southwest, even as good as they are.

On The Whole, They Gotta Be In Philadelphia. And that brings us back to Philadelphia (as terrifying as that sounds, at least for those of us who've had to live there.) Southwest knew that it had to make a pre-emptive strike at PHL - to snarf up gates, establish turf, and attempt to deny jetBlue a beach head there. A sound competitive move, but one that could signal a range of shifts in the future expansion strategies at Southwest. The airline can be expected to move quickly over the next 18-months to shore up its position in key Eastern markets. Probably the most apparent moves will involve connecting the dots between existing airports on the WN route system. Watch for accelerated moves into transcon and semi-transcon markets.

Big-Time Loser: Wild Turkey Sales. What not to expect is a rash of new cities on their route system. They know jetBlue is eventually going to be all over them, and they will be circling the wagons accordingly. Forays into risky new cities is not in the cards. Any airport that doesn't have a million enplanements and the potential of generating or capturing another 300,000 to 400,000 passengers can now commence singing the blues: The odds of getting Southwest service are neck and neck with a meteor strike.

So smaller airports should face realities. Southwest is out of reach. They aren't coming. Regardless. And, by all means, small airports had best forego sending Southwest any more of those cutesy-pie marketing promotions that center around Wild Turkey bourbon. The long-suffering and good natured folks at Southwest have seen virtually every form of trying to use Mr. Kelleher's choice in adult beverages as a marketing tool. Frankly, that stopped being "innovative" about a decade ago. If you're a small to mid-size airport, save yourself the money and the brain damage. That promotional bottle you were going to send to Southwest, so cleverly disguised inside a stuffed turkey holding a picture of your airport in its mouth, is a lost cause. We'd suggest you drink the stuff instead.

Adjusting To The New Kid(s) On The Block. For almost a decade, Southwest has had pretty much free reign. Now it has an emerging, major competitor in the form of jetBlue. For Southwest, it means adjusting and responding to competition that wasn't there before. And responding to new competition often demands changing the way one does business.

It's evolve or die. By the time the dust settles on this match-up, both airlines are likely to look a whole lot different than they do today.
 
amen

Time for a model change. :)
 
Once again, an ignorant writer - fiercely loyal to JetBlue - has made remarks in an area in which he has not done his homework. I think it is funny how everyone sees JetBlue as some kind of "second coming of the Mesiah". Southwest has been battling other low cost carriers for years in many different markets and they have continued to make money. So have, I might add, those other low cost carriers. The only new thing the "Blue Mesiah" brings is entertainment centers at each seat. Woopee! Time and time again the traveling public have shown that they don't care about a lot of extras. They just want a cheap seat on a safe airline who treats them with the respect they deserve as paying passengers.

The northeast has had low cost carriers for almost a decade. PHL has had low cost carriers for sometime now. The great people of the city of brotherly love have been seeing low air fares to many, many locations for years.

This guy makes it out to be down to two carriers for all the marbles in this industry. Sounds like he is insecure about his beloved JetBlue and is trying to use (abuse) his journalistic resources to pump up JB as much as he can.

I don't think the smart management at JetBlue would agree with him. Surely they don't see it as a "firefight" between only them and Southwest. If they do then they are not as smart as I give them credit for. The other LCC's will roll in through the back door while they are fighting Southwest and steal mega market share right out from under their nose.

JetBlue is a fine company, but they are at best the fourth or fifth largest LCC. And all those companies above them continue to grow and profit every quarter. Maybe one day Southwest and JetBlue will be the only two viable LCC's, but that day is a long, long time away.

Fly safe,
 
I agree AFcitrus! His article is supposedly about PHL and Southwest, yet he somehow turns it into an ad for JetBlue. JetBlue does not even fly to PHL! Oh well, it's been a long time since the media held hands with accuracies and facts. Sensationalism seems to be a much more promiscous and popular lover.
 
AFCitrus

Boy, talk about insecurity and getting no respect.

AirTran is well known on the East Coast, and will soon be well known on the West Coast. The 717 is a great a/c, but I'm afraid it's future mfg days are numbered, and you will be stuck with an orphan fleet. The 717 was the best choice at the time for AAI, but has not been well received from the other airlines because of it's range limitations.

You will find the going tough in a few years when B6 begins to incur on many of your smaller/midsize markets. The 717 is no match for the 190 in terms of ergonomics or economics. AAI is a highly leveraged company, and it's debt load could catch up to it when B6 begins to enter it's markets.

I have flown aboard the 717 many times to ROC, and thoroughly enjoyed the ride and service. Wishing you well in a future tough market.
 
I believe the author of this article is Mike Boyd, one of the most respected people covering the airline business.

So I would not just write this off as some JB flag waver.
 
Mike Boyd is also paid by the airlines. He also said United's days were numbered, and it seems like they are still around.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
lowecur, thanks for your thoughts on AirTran, but I thought this was a JetBlue/Southwest discussion...
I'm afraid I have to disagree with the ergonomics issue. The 717 looks to be much more passenger friendly than the 190, although the 190 is a step up from the RJ's. Economics is debateable. It's true the short range hurts, but it is still quite efficient on our current routes.
TheRealStory, Mike Boyd is not respected. He constantly spouts off random thoughts, and occasionally something comes true. His objectivity and creative thought are greatly lacking.
 
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PHL gates

AAI = 4
SWA = 4 ? to come
JBLU = 0
USA = Bunch

Did I miss sumthin? Oh I get it an ad for JBLU, sorry my mistake.
 
People tend to not like Boyd because he often goes against conventional wisdom, and that is very upsetting to the herding mentality that is found amound paid industry analysts.

I personally believe that he is very thought provoking and tells it like he sees it, unlike some of the analyst hacks that can be found floating around the boutique aviation scene in New York City.

Yes - he does tend to have a bias in favor of JBLU. But, I think that this is because of the success it has had, and the decisions it makes.

But remember the main points are as follows:

1. Boyd thinks the opening of PHL is an indication that SWA is on the verge of changing its business model to account for true low-fare competition. Boyd is actually complemetary of this fact stating that the folks at SWA are very savvy.

2. Smaller markets that would have been on the radar for SWA are probably not on the radar anymore since SWA is probably going to start to "Circle the Wagons" around larger markets with 1 million enplanements or more.

This is not an indication that he is rooting for one player or the other. He is only stating the facts that SWA has its hands full.

my .02$
 
DCitrus9

I love these discussions.

EMB190 = 2X2 seating 717 = 3X2 seating

This layout alone makes the 190 head & shoulders more ergonomically efficient for passengers and the airline. Boarding & Disembarking is much faster with the 2X2. Overhead bin space is a draw. I believe FL's seat pitch is 30" in coach, and B6's will be 31". Height is 6'6" with the 190. I believe the 717 is larger, but it won't make much of a difference unless you plan to charter the NBA. The 190 even has a swing out cupholder. I believe the 717 does carry more cargo.

Efficiency? Check the ERJ web page. Look at the comparison between the 190 & 717. I'll still fly FL from MCO to ROC, and the non-stop is a pleasure. Of course B6 may add the 190 to this route in 06. I'll probably switch off between the two. Both are great airlines to travel on.

On the B6/WN discussion. Both will do very well. It's just WN needs to turn into a growth company in the future. It's better for their stock options for the employees. Right now, both stock's are way overvalued.
 
Mike Boyd writes a few non related facts into a story of biblical porportions while making huge assumptions..

A few facts to ponder..

SWA fleet size years 2003 to 2012..These numbers include retirements and do not include options that may be converted to firm orders..
2003 387
2004 412
2005 441
2006 479
2007 513
2008 544

years 2009 thru 2012.

177 aircraft delivered for a total fleet size of..

721 aircraft.

Again..These do NOT include options that may be converted to firm orders..SWA has almost always taken more aircraft than planned..

Now..Thats a plan !

How many aircraft does JB currently have?

How many cities do they currently serve?

SWA..59 cities and counting..

How many aircraft can SWA add by connecting the dots without opening a new city?Currently over 100..

While its true that JB has a good product,they are far..far away from being as big a player as Mr Boyd would have you think..

The minor spanking they recently recieved at ATL shows that the market place is still strong enough to hand them their Blue Chips and send them packing under the right conditions..

Now..If the major players continue to be weakened by low demand..JB may well continue to grow in certain markets..

But,If the demand returns and the major players have the cash needed to take a run at JB..Then all bets are off as for where JB will be able to go..A strong market place may be JBs undoing when it comes to growth..

The best thing for JB would be demand remain low with the majors bleeding enough cash that they really cant afford to respond..

This up and coming holiday travel season plus next summer travel will provide a better picture of who the future players will be..

But for now..JB remains the darling of both the press as well as Wall Street..

Both of which have turned a daily disregard of both fact and reality into professions of slander and greed..

Mike
 
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I wish I had something profound to say, but I fell asleep before getting to the end of that article.
 
I find it amusing when Boyd can posit that SWA's future is only going into BIG markets, no more small ones, but some here take the "change in strategy" remarks as an endorsement for SMALLER jets for SWA to serve SMALLER markets! Wow! One really, really has to stretch to see anything in Boyd's piece suggesting that he believes the "SWA about to go to smaller jets" rumors.

That's okay, though, we have it on good authority (flightinfo) that SWA, who hasn't added a city since 2001, is going to double the number of cities they serve in, what was it, 7 or 8 years? All done with EMB 190's, of course!

sure.
 
program caller

snoop,

i don't know what it is, but lowecur must own stock in emb, be the son of the emb president, etc.... he is convinced that is the wave of the future and every ounce of his being is put into pushing that agenda on this board. who knows? as he tends to be a "limbaugh" program caller i've started to tune out his rhetoric. i may pay for not listening to an up an coming prophet, but until then i'm not losing any sleep.


slug
 
I have to hand it to those Citrus folks. They know how to make communities give them money to come to their cities. B6 is not as highly subsidized as FL. One example is Wichita, KS. Last year, Wichita paid FL $3 million for their shortcomings, so far this year, the bill is $680,000. Pensacola also created a bank to lure FL from Eglin, FL. Beau Rivage (Casino) in Gulfport, MS, pays for a number of seats on FL, whether they've got passegers or not. I applaud your management in landing these sweet deals. In less than 4 years, B6 has surpassed FL in number of seat miles (I think if FL had started with a better airframe from the beginning, their numbers would've been through the roof). The article is correct in stating that JBLU has created a good following, our customers know that we'll go the extra mile for them (Blackout, President's Day Snowstorm) and that our service from the FAs is nearly the best in the LCC industry. When the time comes for our ERJs, they too will be staffed by B6 employees, because our brand matters. Airtran can job out AW and Ryan Intl, because their brand doesn't matter, their customers only want one thing, cheap fare... The future looks bright for all LCCs and each has their own niche-- it'll be more interesting when Virgin America starts soon, throw another one in!!!
 
Are there any EMB 190's flying? Or is this still on the drawing board?
 
Snoopy58!!!!!!!!!

Hemorrhoids got you off the line? That's OK, we can continue our discussion. 58 stands for the year you were born, right?

I liked that whole article except for the "big city" inferrence. As a professional analyst/strategist, he gets his share wrong. How'd you like the Philadelphia Story? I'll bet you had a hangover for 3 days. I have to admit, my wife had to pick my head up out of the cereal bowl.

You keep referring to the 190. That will only be a small part of the purchase by WN. I look for the 175, as the primary purchase. The 86 seats are perfect when they take over the majority of that regional terminal with 40 gates at PHL. And yes, that's why they are in PHL. Not for the 8 gates that they will have in 2 years. They need a facility to dominate the East Coast Small/Mid Size Market, and PHL is the ticket. With UAIR the weakest of the legacy carriers, they are setting themselves up perfectly to compete against B6 and the rest when UAIR goes 7.

Can you decifer what kind of propaganda MLBWINGBORN is trying to promote. Maybe I have trouble reading the 3Q 10K, but it clearly states between 2009-12 that those 177 a/c are options. Also, he's growing the fleet faster than they acquire new a/c. By the 10K accounts, it shows 127 firm new a/c from 2004-08. He's growing fleet by 157 during the same period. Do these numbers come from SWAPA?

Looking forward to your congenial remarks as always.
 
I liked that whole article except for the "big city" inferrence.
That was pretty much the entire point of the whole article, that SWA will only be going into big cities in the near future. Which shoots down the SWA/EMB theory entirely. But other than that, the article was okay? You like the font, the graphics, the spelling & grammer were all good? Everything except his main point, right?
 
-better read the important part-

"For those of us who have actually been on the Embraer 170 prototype, it's very clear the -190 is a 100-seat mainline jet that will put JetBlue in position to enter markets and adjust capacity with extreme flexibility. Bottom Line: Jetblue is now the standard to which low fare airlines must aspire. Including Southwest, even as good as they are."

"And responding to new competition, offen demands changing the way one does business. It's evolve or die. By the time the dust settles on this match-up, both airlines are likely to look a whole lot different that they do today."

You missed the point, Snoop!:)
 

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