Swa Pft

[Crizz]

Thanks for the meaningful discussion, and subsequent hijack. Entertaining as always.

350 - what is the significance of your sig anyways?

 

[The_Russian]

HA!

But.... there are a few of us in the industry that possess just a tad bit of "class" and self respect and would avoid SWA at all costs. Just compare this pilot group with the pilots from other carriers, big big difference.

You said it yourself. This had nothing to do with GIA. I just stumbled upon your arrogance.

 

[flint4xx]

Just compare this pilot group with the pilots from other carriers, big big difference.

Just what does that mean? Do you compare races, religions, sexes etc. so flippantly? You are a buffoon.

 

[350DRIVER]

Just what does that mean? Do you compare races, religions, sexes etc. so flippantly? You are a buffoon.

PAY, QOL, average legs per day, equipment, destinations, etc, etc, .. It has nothing to do with what you injected into the thread as much as I am sure you would like to turn it into a race/religion issue.



Moline may not be too bad though ehhh?



3 5 0

 

[SWA/FO]

An AWA pilot talking about pay and QOL?

AWA may as well be called UPS or Fed Ex...I mean what is going on with all that night flying? Red Eyes, anyone?

Pay? get real. Check out our 401 match.

Glad you're happy. When I was jumpseating, I met a lot Captain's at AWA that said "I just sent my stuff into Dallas".

Sure people left SWA for the Legacy Carriers, but I have never heard of anybody leaving SWA for AWA...sorry.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

350 just pulled his post about how "low" SWA pay was. He must have studied up and realized that 2nd year SWA = 5th year AWA.

 

[flint4xx]

Then you should have compared contracts, not pilots.

My last three day trip I flew six legs TOTAL. Commutable on both ends. I'm on track to make well into six figures on fourth year pay, and I rarely work extra. All that and they are going to give me a 13% raise this year too. And we ALL get to share the profit.

Tell me again how bad I have it.

linky

 

[Caveman]

SWA is not quite PFT, but it is PFT Lite. There is no reason to require a 73 type when the company is required to train you regardless. If the requirement were the type and 500 hours in the 737 it would make more sense as an indicator of pertinent experience.

The type requirement does a couple of things. First, it almost eliminates the possibility of a training failure therefore reducing SWA's training costs. Second, it lowers the companies insurance by having two typed pilots up front. So, SWA does pass off some of their normal expenses to the new hires.

Somehow, in my mind SWA's policy doesn't quite meet the PFT litmus test, but it is a bit distasteful, particularly when they are the only company that requires it. However, it's their airline and they can do what they want.

I can't help but wonder how much of the acceptance of SWA's policy is based on the quality of the employment. For example, would conventional wisdom be as kind to a regional that required a CRJ type prior to getting hired.? Are we giving LUV a pass because it's such a good job that it's worth it to bend the PFT rules a little bit?

 

[canyonblue]

However, it's their airline and they can do what they want.

Exactly, I feel the same way about the Augusta National Golf Club. But try explaining that to Martha Burke. Maybe she will take on SWA next to get them to drop the Type since we don't allow Non-Type rated pilots to join the club.

 

[potrack]

SWA 737

Great company but to each his own.

Some wanna pay for the type to fly 737s 6 legs a day for the next 25 years.

Some don't.

There is something to make everyone happy.

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Clown,

We don't fly 6 legs a day. We go coast to coast baby!! Non-stop!! You gota LUV that?

 

[juan2go]

6 legs a day

Come on guys. All this chatter. Let's get the facts straight.

8-9 legs a day average. Captains make 120k/yr, fo's 55k/yr (not including stock options). Schedules are 11 days off per month (if you're senior). Oh, and nobody is happy.

Finally the truth about what it's really like at Southwest. Why would anyone want to work there when you have AWA and so many other great places to work.

Well, I better go. I only have one day off this week and I have to walk down to the laundymat to wash the one shirt that I have for my six day trip.

regards,

juan

 

[canyonblue]

An AWA pilot talking about pay and QOL?

I doubt he is a pilot for AWA. He is more likely AW Experss ie: MESA. His post's are so pro Mesa they make me vomit. I doubt that any AWA pilot would be praising Mesa the way this buffon does.....

from the Regional board................

Obviously you can see the company who is continuing to hire (pilots too ), purchase new equipment, prosper, succeed, expand route structure, aquire other companies (Midway), etc, etc, etc. It would have sucked to have seen Mesa try and bail these guys out since in reality ACA probably could have brought Mesa right down the gutt(a) with em.

I have yet to meet an AWA guy that is this gleeful over Mesa. On top of it the guy is voting for Kerry!!! 350DRIVER take a hike. And put EXPRESS on your avatar.

 

[350DRIVER]

canyonblue,

As of late quite a few Mesa guys have moved on to HP, ATA, and others. I hear a few have also even ended up at your Greyhound? I have no ties to Mesa other than a good friend being a check airman there that was in my upgrade class doing 135 a long time ago. Pro-Mesa? I think I was simply "posting" factual data that is currently taking place.



I think furloughfodder said it best in a previous thread, your group is truly a "class act".

3 5 0

 

[SMMustang]

If you are considering getting a 73 type, get hired by SWA first.

I got a type and then got hired elsewhere first and the type did me nothing really.

I also know someone who got the type and interviewed twice and never hired at SWA, what good is his type rating doing him.

Before you go get the type, think about what happens if you don't get hired there.

That said, had I been hired by SWA first, I probably would still be there and singing their praises. Same as if I'd been hired by some other top carrier.

But, I do have a 73 type that I'll never use.

 

[canyonblue]

I have no ties to Mesa

Where do you have ties then? Enlighten us SWA pilots on the Nirvana we are missing out on.

 

[Snoopy58]

Okay, everyone here who paid more than $1 for the training to get your commercial or instrument or ATP, please raise your hand.

Okay, congratulations, all of you paid more for your training than many pilots at SWA did for their 737 type ratings... thanks to either a little jet called the T-43, or a now-defunct airline called Vanguard.

I'll believe that SWA is "PFT" when someone explains to me how my buddy in newhire training, an ex-AF T-43 pilot, paid for his type rating. Until then, I really have strong doubts.

(BTW, a 737 type with zero time IS worth something -- I know of at least one pilot who got paid to fly rightseat in a BBJ while he waited for his class at SWA. Granted, pre-9/11 & before the present pilot surplus, but it was an extra income for him.)

 

[350DRIVER]

Before you go get the type, think about what happens if you don't get hired there.

Or go elsewhere to a company that does not require the type to be bought at the applicant's expense if you do not want to take such a gamble, fortunately they are the only airline that requires this. A type with no time in type means very little if anything if plan A does not work out.


3 5 0

 

[350DRIVER]

or a now-defunct airline called Vanguard.

And most likely thanks to the d.o and asst. if you were once Vanguard then more than likely you are now at Frontier.


3 5 0

John - what is the number up to now? Great group of guys.

 

[canyonblue]

Hey 350! I'm waiting for your answer!.................

 

[SWA/FO]

Hey Canyonblue,

Did you close on your new vacation house in PHX yet?

Hey 350,

I guess when SWA told me "we want you in class...go get your type" I should have stood up to them and said "What? your offering me a job which the company has never furloughed, a quick upgrade and an excellent schedule .....nah, I think I'll pass, because somebody on flightinfo.com might think this is pft "

By-the-way, SWA did not have to borrow money from the government to stay in business.

 

[flint4xx]

Best $6000 if ever spent. Helluva a return on my investment.

 

[Indapool]

yup d@mn thing cost me $6,000
It took me my ENTIRE FIRST MONTH on the job to make that
Boy did I get screwed

 

[bobbysamd]

SWA 737 type and P-F-T

P-F-T is an employment issue only. You can apply a two-prong test when analyzing a possible P-F-T program:

1. If a company hires you but as a condition of employment requires you to pay for its training of you to do its work, it is P-F-T.

2. If, after considering No. 1, the training provided is esoteric to that company only and does not lead to a certificate, rating or operating privilege which is acceptable outside the company and can be marketed elsewhere, it is P-F-T.

Prong No. 1 is the primary test of P-F-T.

After applying this test, the B737 requirement at Southwest is not P-F-T. Yes, Southwest requires you to possess a 737 type to be considered for pilot employment, but does not require you to pay for its FAA-required initial line training of you as a condition of hire. Therefore, SWA, and its 737 hiring requirement, is not P-F-T.

Someone above summed it up the best; a 737 type earned at another company at its expense fulfills this Southwest Airlines hiring qualification. Although many people buy 737 types because they want to work at Southwest, that comment alone negates any assertion that the 737 type rating requirement at Southwest is P-F-T.