SWA P.I.C. Requirement ??

[temcgrew]

does the definition of PIC time on the SWA website allow an F/O WITH A TYPE RATING and AS THE SOLE MANIPULATOR of the controls to count that time towards the 1,000 turbine PIC requirement?

here is what the definition says from the website:

"*Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC"

can the sole manipulator of the aircraft be the F/O? or is it saying the pilot in the left seat only when he is the sole manipulator of the controls can log PIC time?

Desperately seeking PIC time......

 

[js31pilot]

In short......without getting too deep into the defenitions.....you have to be a Captain. At least that is how I read that defenition.

 

[English]

I did my 737 type at K&S Aviation in December. A PHX Assistant Chief Pilot came in to speak with us about SWA hiring, and he said that they allow an F/O flying in the left seat to log PIC time if typed. The question was asked of him from the corporate world stand-point, as in part 91 ops when the F/O is typed and flying from the left seat. We were told this complies with SWA's PIC requirement.

If you are flying 135 or 121, then, no, 'cuz how are you going to get into the left seat to begin with? So, if you are flying part 91, time to get chummy and talk your captain into let you fly from the left seat.

 

[PSL]

JS31Pilot:

You are correct ... the PIC time is per FAR Part 1 ... in short ... the person who signed for the aircraft.

FOs with type ratings (if applicable) and flying the leg can not use that time towards the PIC requirement at SWA.

IPs and ACs can log that time in which they are acting as such. Military 2nd seaters CAN use the time they accumulate in seat (if they are flying the leg) if they have previously qualified as ACs.

At least that's how I understand how the system works ...

 

[shootr]

Been through the process, asked all the necessary questions, and without fail, all SWA People Dept. people that I came in contact were very firm on this point...

"Were you in charge of the plane? Yes? Then you were the PIC. No? Then, somebody else was the PIC. In other words, Captain (Aircraft Commander for Military)." Just opinion, I could be wrong. However, this opinion is from a military point of view.

Quote from the web-site...

"For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC."

It seems this is a loop-hole that a part 91 F/O could use to define his PIC, if he were in the left seat and the only pilot on the controls. This seems like the only case, other than Captain, you can count your time as PIC but be prepared for "Lucy! You have some 'splainin' to do!" Be conservative if you can.

The web site quote "For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot.", makes it obvious that Military must be the A/C.

Good Luck!
shootr

 

[English]

shootr,

I agree, be conservative. I was surprised to hear that F/Os could log PIC time under certain circumstances. In fact, I asked several questions just to clarify that I had actually heard what I thought I heard.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

At our airline (both 121 and 135 ops), an FO, without a type rating, can fly from the left seat, if he's with a checkairman/instructor. If he's with a line captain, he can fly from the left seat with a left seat letter from the chief pilot.

So, apparently, he could log jet PIC time when he's in the left seat and it's his leg to fly.

Cliff
GRB

 

[cgmason1]

Allot of companies do this--they are called relief pilots for long legs.
For example-Atlas types their F/O's on the 747's and while the CPT is taking a snooze two FO's can be flying together.
But by the definition of Part 1--the CPT taking a snooze is still responsible for the aircraft.
(not sure of all their requirements to do this--just what I have been told)
Basically Part 1 means whoever is soley responsible--ie signed for the aircraft.

Fly Safe
Chuck

 

[shootr]

atpcliff,

The F/O in the left seat may only log if he has the type rating, is in the left seat, and is the sole manipulator of the controls. Again, this is not a conservative method. Although you might see SWA as an easy going laid-back company, my impression is that in their pilot hiring process, they are looking for Captains that have shown an ability to lead an aircrew. A pilot might make it to the interview with 500 of real part I PIC and 500 of sole manipulator of controls with a type in the left seat, but I doubt he would be close to competetive with regard to his leadership experience. Then again, they hired me with only P-3 and T-34 time!

Good Luck,
shootr

 

[Pilotbob3]

how does jetblue define it? can a type rated fo sitting in the captains seat for a international flight log it?