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Swa hawaii update

Dan Roman

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I have no idea if SWA will be competitive with anyone in the Hawaii market, we don't fly there.

What I do know is folks will flock to a cheaper product, that has been proven time and time again.

Hawaiians are consumers just like everyone else. Brand loyalty did nothing to save Aloha airlines according to CEO David Banmiller. "Aloha Airlines was founded in 1946 to give Hawaii's people a choice in inter-island air transportation," he said. "Unfortunately, unfair competition has succeeded in driving us out of business, bringing to an end a 61-year-old company with a proud legacy of serving millions of travelers in the true spirit of Aloha."

I doubt many will claim GO! had a superior product, but in the end they developed enough of a following to put Aloha out of business.

Aloha put Aloha out of business, the fare war that Go started was simply the straw that broke their back. It's way more complicated than what you think. Again, EVERY airline that has tried to establish themselves in Hawaii with low fares has failed. Every one and there has been a lot. Go never even attained a 10% market share. They are a classic example that low fares are NOT a prescription for success. In fact, any airline that thinks they will succeed in Hawaii by being "cheap" will almost certainly fail in Hawaii if history is any indication.
 
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Dan Roman

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It's a little odd that the SWA folks are on here crowing about being "cheaper". A 737 has much higher seat mile costs to Hawaii than the larger airplanes. 737's work on thin markets, but they don't work at all as a low cost alternative to compete in high volume markets between Hawaii and the west coast.
 
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Roomwithaview

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Take a powder

It's a little odd that the SWA folks are on here crowing about being "cheaper". A 737 has much higher seat mile costs to Hawaii than the larger airplanes. 737's work on thin markets, but they don't work at all as a low cost alternative to compete in high volume markets between Hawaii and the west coast.

What makes you think we'll GO TO the islands from the mainland with the 73? If that were the case we'd be there now,

I'm giving you pineapple street cred by saying that SWA wouldn't try to compete head to head with HA instead they would more than likely buy them. Make sure they did a big koolie fest WON LUV campaign like they did with the trannies and once the paint jobs are all gone the only thing people will do is remember fondly of the airline that was.
 

Roomwithaview

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The cheapest eh? The seat mile costs on the A330 are much lower than a 737 to Hawaii. A 767 is also lower. SWA can't compete on cost in a head to head battle, if we were breaking even at a certain fare, you would be losing money. That doesn't take into the fact that SWA would have a huge pool of frequent fliers wanting to go to Hawaii. With the amount of people you carry domestically that would want to use their miles you would have two choices, limit the seats on your little 737's to the point that you would piss off a lot of people or just operate with a lot of frequent fliers and very little revenue.
That said, LCC's don't do well to Hawaii. Look at Allegiant, they fell flat on their face. Everyone that tries to be the "cheap" carrier to Hawaii fails, not just Allegiant, but the list goes on and on from ATA, Pacific East Air, Air Hawaii etc. As Jim said, the Mesa/ Go debacle was just the most recent failure of LCC's failing inter-island. Again, many have tried, but all have failed, so your little "logical choice" comment is not only arrogant, but wrong.

This is pretty naive, low brow debating here.

First off, and I'll reiterate, SWA won't try to hit the island with 73's.
Secondly the CASM to operate inter island will be much cheaper in 73's with 143 and 175 seats. That's what you'll more than likely see. If Kelly wanted to hit the island with 73's and serve them with 717's, like, HA, then we wouldn't have sold off the tranny 717's to DAL.
Thirdly, if you think we are similar to GOJET, Allegiant or ATA then you aren't paying attention.

My assumption is that our mgt team finally pulled their head out their Ass regarding the capabilities of the 800 and shelved Hawaii until we have a plane that can hit the island OR our dip******************** union gives it away in CS.
 

Roomwithaview

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Huh?

Btw, one thing about Hawaii, if you are a jerk a lot of people here don't have any problem being rude to you. An arrogant pass rider/ jumpseater probably could, in fact feel the wrath of a gate agent. If your nice, they generally are very nice, if you are not, they can be pretty harsh.
I've heard a lot of people say how well they were treated on Hawaiian because most people are nice, but if you are jerk, you do make yourself a target and could very well feel it.
Again if you have a problem with Hawaiian the cause is probably right there in your bathroom mirror.

Being rude and offering great customer service are not island specific items my friend. You try to make it sound like HA is different than every other mainland airline where flights are oversold, bags get lost, ops agents erupt on pax treat them like crap and show little concern for the fact they're getting bumped because the Barbie jet is, once again, weight restricted.

I, myself, have never been treated poorly by HA but I was stunned at how they were treating the pax, many if the obviously locals.

"MAHALO!!"
 

waveflyer

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Dan,
You clearly want to establish ...something... With these posts.
If we do go to Hawaii, why would you think it would have anything to do with HAL. Every major airline goes there. For a reason.
I'm sure we'll find the way to serve it that works for us.

And buying Hawaiian would be an almost completely separate strategic move.
Time will tell.
But your posts are telling my friend.
You're worried and defensive about a possible purchase.
Where Room is usually over aggressive, he's spot on in this thread. We wouldn't try and go inter island against you.
 

slaquer5

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Dan,
You clearly want to establish ...something... With these posts.

Time will tell.
But your posts are telling my friend.
You're worried and defensive about a possible purchase..


That's for sure


Dan is acting like flop. :)


Dan , Flop. I wish you both a good weekend :)
 

HowardBorden

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Aloha put Aloha out of business, the fare war that Go started was simply the straw that broke their back. It's way more complicated than what you think. Again, EVERY airline that has tried to establish themselves in Hawaii with low fares has failed. Every one and there has been a lot. Go never even attained a 10% market share. They are a classic example that low fares are NOT a prescription for success. In fact, any airline that thinks they will succeed in Hawaii by being "cheap" will almost certainly fail in Hawaii if history is any indication.
I wasn't trying to assert that GO! was a success, but trying to point out the lack of brand loyalty. Aloha had been serving Hawaii for 61 years and a poorly run RJ operator came in and put them out of business. I realize that Aloha was already on shaky ground but if Hawaiians as a whole would have gathered together to support the home town favorite instead of the cheaper upstart, the whole thing could have turned out differently. I'll state it again: brand loyalty is virtually nonexistent in the airline business.
 

waveflyer

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I hope we, especially leadership, remembers that one Howie

There IS brand loyalty-
But it's fickle at best
 

Roomwithaview

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Here, let me fix that for ya..

brand loyalty is -------- nonexistent in the airline business.
:puke:
 

Dan Roman

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What makes you think we'll GO TO the islands from the mainland with the 73? If that were the case we'd be there now,

I'm giving you pineapple street cred by saying that SWA wouldn't try to compete head to head with HA instead they would more than likely buy them. Make sure they did a big koolie fest WON LUV campaign like they did with the trannies and once the paint jobs are all gone the only thing people will do is remember fondly of the airline that was.

Is pineapple street creed a good thing or a bad thing? :)
 

Dan Roman

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Dan,
You clearly want to establish ...something... With these posts.
If we do go to Hawaii, why would you think it would have anything to do with HAL. Every major airline goes there. For a reason.
I'm sure we'll find the way to serve it that works for us.

And buying Hawaiian would be an almost completely separate strategic move.
Time will tell.
But your posts are telling my friend.
You're worried and defensive about a possible purchase.
Where Room is usually over aggressive, he's spot on in this thread. We wouldn't try and go inter island against you.

As I've said many times, when it's an HA string I enjoy piping in. You are reading way to much into my posts. I really am not even remotely concerned about SWA for 2 reasons, the chances of us merging are minute and if you do fly here we will still be full and so will you. What's really at stake for all the airlines coming here in the future is going to be hotel room availability. You offer any fare you want but if they can't get a place to stay it won't matter.
 

BentOver

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One thing is for certain. And I'm dealing with just facts here.....Compared to HA a/c.............SWA airplanes are UUUUGGGGLLYYYY


I dare any SWA guy to dispute that....

Now back to your regularly scheduled program of pretending to be the CEO of your company.
 

Roomwithaview

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One thing is for certain. And I'm dealing with just facts here.....Compared to HA a/c.............SWA airplanes are UUUUGGGGLLYYYY


I dare any SWA guy to dispute that....

Now back to your regularly scheduled program of pretending to be the CEO of your company.


Someone has to!
 

Hikoushi

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Tell you what Dan, I'll pitch a fastball on your behalf. HAL gets the A321 NEOs up and rolling in what, 2017? You watch. HAL will either codeshare up the wazoo or merge with Virgin America / JetBlue (you already codeshare with both, correct?); adding that to the widebody service and cargo on the A330 will equal Cash Cash CASH!!! If SWA enters that fray it will become a bloodbath. But you know what? The loser will be..... Alaska. HAL will maintain it's higher-end customer base with free food and first class, while SWA will maintain it's dirt-cheapskate customer base and do well, too. Leaving Alaska with..... well I don't know but they have deep pockets and are not dumb, so will probably fall back or die trying. I wish them good luck. Maybe HAL will have an opportunity to buy Alaska and REALLY give SWA hell!!
 
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Roomwithaview

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Maybe HAL will have an opportunity to buy Alaska and REALLY give SWA hell!!

Please do!!!

Then the "real men"can show us the proper way to do a SLI!

:D
 
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