SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[WarnerNo13]

You all realize that there are other employees that make an airline run other than pilots right? Have airlines and pilot groups gotten so blinded that they think an earth tilting deal like this should depend solely on what's good for them? Next time you walk by a gate agent, or call a mechanic for help, or contact your dispatcher for a quick fuel burn, or butter up your crew scheduler with some candy, or visit your benefits dept to work on your 401k, think about it for a second that it's not just your life being affected.

What's going on with the mechanics' labor groups? The dispatcher labor groups? What about the flight attendants one being union and the other not? Take in the whole picture.

 

[Cometman]

You all realize that there are other employees that make an airline run other than pilots right? Have airlines and pilot groups gotten so blinded that they think an earth tilting deal like this should depend solely on what's good for them? Next time you walk by a gate agent, or call a mechanic for help, or contact your dispatcher for a quick fuel burn, or butter up your crew scheduler with some candy, or visit your benefits dept to work on your 401k, think about it for a second that it's not just your life being affected.

What's going on with the mechanics' labor groups? The dispatcher labor groups? What about the flight attendants one being union and the other not? Take in the whole picture.

Maybe they have their own site they use. This site is for pilots that is why the only thing you read is about pilots.

 

[WildcatFan]

This is gutwrenching for me watching these guys let this slip through their fingers. No other company would back SWAPA's play like SWA just did. I feel like I am watching someone commit suicide. Dudes - it is great here. I am junior and still love it. We are just asking you to do what all 6000 of us did. No, scratch that we are asking you to do what we did except for a lot more money, guaranteed domicile protection and longetivity pay scale! SWA will not go to arbitration and will not cram this down SWAPA's throats - SWA survival doesnt depend on Denver, and it is cheaper to buy and shut down....you guys are worrying me ...this is moving fast.

 

[PropPiedmont]

I hope the few at Frontier didn't ruin a good thing for the majority over there.

 

[Vegaspilot99]

I hope the few at Frontier didn't ruin a good thing for the majority over there.

Tell me about it...its maddening to watch this play out.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Maybe they have their own site they use. This site is for pilots that is why the only thing you read is about pilots.

I see forums on flightinfo for ATC, Flight Attendants, Dispatchers, Mechanics, etc.

Besides, the point of my post is not whether only pilots can post on here, it's pointing out in the real world that an airline deal should not rest solely on what the pilots want and how their lives would be affected. Obviously from the information coming out WN and F9 seems to be strictly concerned about what the pilot groups have to say and will decide for a few thousand other non-pilots if a deal is made or not. So it really has nothing to do with if other groups have their own forum.

 

[GuppyWN]

Q: How does a pilot change a lightbulb?

A: He holds the bulb and lets the world revolve around him.


Gup

 

[WarnerNo13]

Q: How does a pilot change a lightbulb?

A: He holds the bulb and lets the world revolve around him.


Gup

Lol classic!

 

[aewanabe]

Warner: while we all respect the other work groups, no other craft or profession on property loses nearly as much from a furlough, staple, etc as a pilot. And with the possible exception of Tech Ops (maintenance for you non Jet-Bluers) no one has nearly the investment in their career as a pilot once we've reached a Legacy or LCC type carrier. It's not that we don't care if you lose your DX job at F9, but starting over at RAH or wherever won't screw you nearly as much as it does us. Sorry if that seems selfish.

 

[WarnerNo13]

Warner: while we all respect the other work groups, no other craft or profession on property loses nearly as much from a furlough, staple, etc as a pilot. And with the possible exception of Tech Ops (maintenance for you non Jet-Bluers) no one has nearly the investment in their career as a pilot once we've reached a Legacy or LCC type carrier. It's not that we don't care if you lose your DX job at F9, but starting over at RAH or wherever won't screw you nearly as much as it does us. Sorry if that seems selfish.

aewanabe, for the record I'm not an F9 DX. You cannont say what the value of another worker's loss is, truthfully. I understand the investment in time and money that pilots make, but other people invest their time and money as well, and have mortgages and mouths to feed just the same. I know your loss may seem more valuable to you by virtue of flying planes, but that cannot be more important to the mechanic whose life might be turned upside down after learning his/her craft and keeping your planes safe for many years. Other groups have seniority lists as well whose QOL depend on that also. Whether the group has 10 members or 1000 members, being stapled to the bottom of a seniority list has the same impact IMHO. How would you as pilot feel if you were watching in the background, while WN TWU was duking it out with Union X and deciding your fate for you with no input from you? Probably not very good.

 

[Caveman]

WarnerNo13,

Nothing personal, but let's cut to the chase. I know it's PC to support the idea 'everyone is crucial to make an airline go' philosophy, but it's crap. Pilots make airlines go. Period. I know we're not supposed to say that out loud. Tough. No pilots, no airlines. Everybody else is secondary. Yeah, I said it.......

 

[WarnerNo13]

WarnerNo13,

Nothing personal, but let's cut to the chase. I know it's PC to support the idea 'everyone is crucial to make an airline go' philosophy, but it's crap. Pilots make airlines go. Period. I know we're not supposed to say that out loud. Tough. No pilots, no airlines. Everybody else is secondary. Yeah, I said it.......

That's mighty cordial of ya. Let me respond that without dispatchers in a 121 you're not making any airplanes go. Without mechanics you can go but probably won't fly very high for very long. Without flight attendants the govt won't be too happy if you go, and without res agents taking people's credit car numbers to pay you, the airline won't go. I wouldn't call it really PC, it's more factual. If pilots did all of the above I might agree with you but they don't.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What's going on with the mechanics' labor groups? The dispatcher labor groups? What about the flight attendants one being union and the other not? Take in the whole picture.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_bi_ge/us_frontier_southwest_3


While Frontier pilots are in a position to make some kind of deal before their airline is sold, other workers aren't so lucky. Southwest told Frontier mechanics and others represented by Teamsters Local 961 in a meeting Wednesday that it intended to eventually liquidate Frontier and hire only a handful of the 450 Frontier mechanics and others represented by the union, said Matthew Fazakas, president and principal officer of the local.

"We obviously think that's outrageous," Fazakas said Thursday. "They told us only a handful of people would be offered jobs, and they were not coming over by seniority."


.

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Hey Idiot,
All Allegheny-Mohawk says it that the SLI must be fair and equitable, with no windfall to either group. It doesn't say ANYTHING about seat protection or relative seniority. You sure do spout off a lot, in spite of hardly ever knowing what the ******************** you're talking about.

Disagree. They will force arbitration and get seat protection and relative seniority to their respective seat. It is Federal Law Mohawk Allegeny. These guys know what they are doing.

 

[WarnerNo13]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090813/ap_on_bi_ge/us_frontier_southwest_3


While Frontier pilots are in a position to make some kind of deal before their airline is sold, other workers aren't so lucky. Southwest told Frontier mechanics and others represented by Teamsters Local 961 in a meeting Wednesday that it intended to eventually liquidate Frontier and hire only a handful of the 450 Frontier mechanics and others represented by the union, said Matthew Fazakas, president and principal officer of the local.

"We obviously think that's outrageous," Fazakas said Thursday. "They told us only a handful of people would be offered jobs, and they were not coming over by seniority."


.

Ouch. I rest my case.

 

[trip]

I would be really surprised if WN can't wrestle a bankrupt airline from little old RAH, at fire sale prices?

Also noted majority of these post are from WN pilots who are obviously in angst over getting this deal done ?

You WN guys should tone it down, too much chest thumping going on here.

Good luck to all envolved.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

I would be really surprised if WN can't wrestle a bankrupt airline from little old RAH, at fire sale prices?

Also noted majority of these post are from WN pilots who are obviously in angst over getting this deal done ?

You WN guys should tone it down, too much chest thumping going on here.

Good luck to all envolved.

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

 

[StaySeated]

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

Demands? I can tell you that there were zero demands. As one of your swapa releases indicated, a ratio integration was proposed, with swapa picking the ratio. There was nothing close to a demand. Just negotiations with exchanges of proposals. Swapa started with a staple, fapa responded in kind with a ratio. The end result ideally would be something in the middle.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

How's this for a start.........

$3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

 

[vv100]

Not really, I am kind of looking forward to the deal failing after what I just read on the SWAPA forum. The demands of FAPA are WWAAAAAAYYYYYY out of line! Good luck with Republic!

From TOF

All Denver FAPA pilots will be Denver Domicile protected with first dibs on any newly created 737 positions in Denver forever.


They want $3000/month + health benefits for for all their furloughees with no time limit

Yep. Time to kill this one.
Well..bye!!