SWA / Frontier Deal Off For Now!

[fiel12]

Just keep in mind that if they are caught using this information as a competitive advantage then Gary Kelly and his Texan buddies go to prison.

Also, after WN management looked at our books and examined our cost structure, they still wanted to proceed with the deal. Our costs (CASM ex-fuel) are lower than theirs, and we have a superior product.

We also have customer loyalty that has been elusive to them in the Denver market.

First quote of many that demonstrates a couple things...the arrogance of the SWA pilot group and the ignorance of the law of the land.



Yes they do. Legal rights. Its called the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs and its the LAW OF THE LAND.



Guess what? Virgin has already expressed interest in F9's Airbii.



Again, SWA arrogance on parade. I can remember a time when it was inconceivable that there could be an airline industry without Pan Am, Eastern, TWA, etc. Things change, pal.



You noticed that too?



"...as long as they're stapled to the bottom of our list." You forgot to add that part.



Wrong. They're just standing up for their LEGAL rights. You buy their airline, you must integrate the seniority list using the Allegheny/Mohawk LPPs. And one of the BIG items in that is NO WINDFALLS.

Placing F9 pilots behind new hire SWA pilots constitutes a huge windfall for junior SWA guys. And there's no argument there.



What does this even mean?



:laugh:



Exactly right. Past growth cannot be extrapolated into the future.



Much as I HATE agreeing with anything ID says, he's right about this one. Allegheny/Mohawk precludes windfalls. Now you might toss the "career expectations" card on the table, but that is generally understood to mean upgrading from narrowbody to widebody equipment. That is a nonstarter in this case because both airlines are narrowbody operators.

Here's the ONLY fair way to integrate these two carriers that complies with current Federal Law:

1. No bump, no flush.
2. All SWA pilots hired before the startup date of the current airline known as Frontier are protected.
3. The rest of the F9 and SWA pilots are ratioed together based on the number of remaining pilots.

Period, end of story.

Flame away.

For the 1,000,000,000th time, if WN doesn't purchase F9 there is no A/H B/M. You can't impose those laws if there is no acquisition. F9 goes to RAH. If FAPA agrees to a staple, that would be binding. There would be no arbitration, and the A/H and B/M would be satisfied because FAPA agreed to the terms. SWAPA offered a staple with pay protection. FAPA said no. Because of that, SWA may retract their bid to buy F9. If FAPA agrees to SWAPA's offer then read my 4th and 5th sentence. If FAPA doesn't agree to SWAPA's offer then WN says they will retract their bid and my first sentence will apply. FAPA can either accept SWAPA's offer or try their chances with RAH.

Get it?

 

[GuppyWN]

My .02 - again.

The haters keep saying SWA guys are arrogant because we want a staple. We quit our jobs to come to SWA to EARN our seniority. F9 is bankrupt and has been promised a job and AT LEAST pay protection - or a raise.

Windfall - A captains seat at SWA for F9 dudes? Talk about a windfall! No way no how. You could have quit F9 years ago and hired on at SWA. You chose not to. I'm OK with that.

If the deal blows up then so be it. The FAPA guys think they can do better at RAH then SWA. Maybe they can, maybe they can't.

I know if I was still at F9 I'd be pissed as hell to get stapled but at the end of the day I would be REALLY REALLY REALLY happy that I got "hired" at SWA without interviewing and can look my family in the eyes and feel some security.

Good luck to all. I mean it.
Gup

 

[shootr]

It's real and it's in the F9 folder on the SWAPA forum.

 

[Dash Power]

I think this is a BS post. Looked on SWAPA web site and cannot find anything about it. Also no email alert from SWAPA or the Merger adn Acquisition Committee which has been keeping us in the loop with email alerts and info.....Let's see some proof

Go to the SWAPA forum, open the Frontier folder at the top, the very top thread is right there.

Its real my friend.

 

[Porch]

Staple or RAH? NO brainer. Take the dang staple at WN... Please!

 

[GuppyWN]

BTW,

My biggest concern is now the gloves will come off.

Gary Kelly tried to "save the hometown airline." There may be a real chance of the buy and fold option coming soon.

Hope not,
Gup

 

[Fubijaakr]

For the 1,000,000,000th time, if WN doesn't purchase F9 there is no A/H B/M. Get it?

I get it. But, if you DO buy F9, Allegheny/Mohawk applies. Period, end of story.

The haters keep saying SWA guys are arrogant because we want a staple.

You are correct. You want to staple guys, you're engaging in a seat grab. That is, by definition, arrogant.

Windfall - A captains seat at SWA for F9 dudes? Talk about a windfall! No way no how.

If you buy and staple them, you're essentially grabbing THEIR left seats. And that's NOT a windfall? GMAFB!

You could have quit F9 years ago and hired on at SWA. You chose not to. I'm OK with that.

And YOU could have stayed there. Today you'd be 10 years senior. Breaks of aviation, pal. You never know the consequences of the choices you make. My next interview was with UPS, but I passed. Sure wish I had done it now.

So, what's the point? Just because you jumped ship early you think you're better than an F9 guy who was loyal? You think YOU deserve HIS left seat? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty arrogant.

 

[GuppyWN]

So, what's the point? Just because you jumped ship early you think you're better than an F9 guy who was loyal? You think YOU deserve HIS left seat? Yeah, I'd say that's pretty arrogant.

Well...... yes. Call me a pr!ck I guess.

Gup

 

[Quiet Flight]

A/M & B/M don't apply in this situation. Period.

 

[General Lee]

I think Gary Kelly will be calling SWAPA this afternoon and saying "hey guys, ummmmm, any chance.......ummmm.....you can....ummmmm give them a better....ummmm....deal? We'd really like to be the largest by far in DEN, and this will cost me my bonus......"

This was either the DUMBEST move ever by FAPA, or the SMARTEST. And, if Republic owns F9 at the end of the day, then SWA may regret it. It is allowing another fish into the pond, and that fish will be growing. Morris Air was different, since it was 2 years old. F9 is not the same. You SWA guys should know that, and quit being so cocky. We didn't staple the Pan Am guys at DL while they were going down and we purchased some of their assets, and our financials back then were better than SWA's today.


Bye Bye--General Lee