SWA/FL Codeshare

[SWAdude]

There is no letter, but as this is how it played out, it was obviously their intention all along, N'est ce pas?

I can say with absolute certainty that the company gave us ZERO intentions of doing such. Quite the opposite actually. Maybe something was said to your MEC and at the time I know they were in hot water by your membership for SLI1 and they gave you that insinuation? If so, poor form again.

 

[Lear70]

Yes there most certainly IS a letter. You guys are killing me with this stuff.

It was issued in Flica e-docs to all our employees 2 days after the MEC vote. It was later followed up by a memo about 3 weeks later saying there were over 100 people working on Plan B, which was clearly defined as exploring the options of non-integration.

Later, during negotiations for SIA 2, we wanted to take a week to go back back and caucus with the MEC over the weekend but were told on Wednesday evening that we had to have a decision for them by Thursday evening because they were having a Board of Directors meeting on Friday and wanted to either brief them on Plan B or tell them we had a deal.

When I get home I'll see if I can find a copy. Since it was a flica e-doc it's not going to be in my email but it's probably on here from that same time period if you want to search while I'm waiting. Late Aug or so of 2011 if memory serves.

 

[SWAdude]

Yes there most certainly IS a letter. You guys are killing me with this stuff.

I would like to see this letter. It is the first I have heard of this. And if we are killing you with this stuff then please do not engage in this discussion.

 

[SWAdude]

Since it was a flica e-doc it's not going to be in my email but it's probably on here from that same time period if you want to search while I'm waiting. Late Aug or so of 2011 if memory serves.

Are you saying SWA pilots have access to this letter also? What is a flica e-doc?

 

[Lear70]

I would like to see this letter. It is the first I have heard of this. And if we are killing you with this stuff then please do not engage in this discussion.

It's not that you haven't heard of it and want to see it that's a problem, although we've all been talking about it on here for over a year. It's your attitude.

Instead of calmly saying you haven't seen it and would like to read it like one of your coworkers did, you inflammatorily accused us of making it up.

You're basically an instigator in the conflict when you and others approach it aggressively, adversaries, and accusatorily. Pretty basic human nature not to respond well to that, then you act surprised that it p*sses us off???

 

[freightdogfred]

I would like to see this letter. It is the first I have heard of this. And if we are killing you with this stuff then please do not engage in this discussion.

Why do we go round and round with this? Mr RedFlyer, in previous posts, asserts the threat of non-integration was very real and apparent and even claim prior knowledge of it. Perhaps he may be able to reveal the source of his clairvoyance.

Non integration. Same as we all tried to tell then on this very forum. Absolutely none of them believed us. Said we were clueless to how this would go down. The rest is history.

I ask you 1 question, and then I'm done.- Do you think that 84% of the FL pilot group would have voted for this lopsided ISL if it were not for the threat of loss of employment?

 

[SWA/FO]

I ask you 1 question, and then I'm done.- Do you think that 84% of the FL pilot group would have voted for this lopsided ISL if it were not for the threat of loss of employment?

yes!!

 

[SWA Bubba]

We didn't believe you because we believed Gary Kelly when he signed the Process Agreement that WE also signed in good faith that said we COULD go to arbitration and WOULD be integrated.

In an interesting, roundabout way, that your management's duplicity may eventually help bring the two pilot groups together IF Southwest pilots can ever quit blaming individual AirTran pilots or the pilots as a group and realize that your management team lead us down the path we took. If they had been honest from the beginning and said "If we can't come to an Agreement, we won't let the two airlines be combined", I'm sure this would have come out completely differently. They chose to hide their agenda, and here we are.

You can't change that one, simple fact, and the minute you guys can understand that and quit bashing the AirTran pilot group or its leadership, we might get past this. Truth is, you guys were right about your management team not being interested in playing fair with us, regardless of what they were saying to our faces. They were practicing The Art of War, and did it masterfully.

If you stopped being hostile to us about it and actually showed a little empathy for what we're all going through over here, we'd probably be able to acknowledge the "You were right, we were wrong" part of it as well, and we'd likely start playing nicer with each other.

It really is up to SWA pilots at this point to extend the olive branch. Right now we feel beat up by both management and your union, which translates to the average AirTran line pilot as "SWAPA = SWA pilots" since its pilots who run SWAPA. We're not going to somehow magically start feeling happy and nice after we got denied our rights and corralled into doing what we didn't want to do. You guys are going to have to build some bridges with our group, or we're going to have two very separate pilot groups for a very long time. It'll be a quiet separation, people will be professional and cordial in person, but you won't get the AirTran pilots on board with anything you want to do as a union until the relationship is built.

It's just human nature. We'll see if your union recognizes it EVENTUALLY. They certainly don't now. Hoping they will sooner than later.

Some very good points, and I agree with most whole-heartedly Lear, but I think you left left out an element. That would be the vocal AirTran pilots on this board (and of course, General Lee), who continually beat the drum and repeat the fallacy that it "was SWAPA and its pilots who did all this to screw you." You note above that it was the company that played hardball, and even acknowledge that some Southwest guys tried to warn you, but you've still got guys on here who insist the opposite. It can be hard to extend an olive branch to a guy pointing his middle finger at you and calling you names. You know what I mean? It's also very easy to do on an anonymous forum, and as we see, results in a continual game of tit-for-tat (and yes, I know that there's Southwest pot-stirrers on the forum as well). And all the while, you've got dumbasses like the General on the sideline playing his favorite game called "let's you and he fight."

The good news is that in real life, face to face, I think people are doing exactly what you describe: putting their hand out, working together, and living the golden rule. At least, that's what I've seen on the line. Will their be hiccups? Probably, but I'd say it's working out better than one would guess just by reading this board.

I guess the moral is to stop paying so much attention to what is said in FI.

Bubba

 

[SWAdude]

It's not that you haven't heard of it and want to see it that's a problem, although we've all been talking about it on here for over a year. It's your attitude.

Instead of calmly saying you haven't seen it and would like to read it like one of your coworkers did, you inflammatorily accused us of making it up.

You're basically an instigator in the conflict when you and others approach it aggressively, adversaries, and accusatorily. Pretty basic human nature not to respond well to that, then you act surprised that it p*sses us off???

Someone said there is no letter. You say otherwise.

Your equally as blind then. Forget it. Sorry to have bothered you.

I'm out.

 

[SWAdude]

Some very good points, and I agree with most whole-heartedly Lear, but I think you left left out an element. That would be the vocal AirTran pilots on this board (and of course, General Lee), who continually beat the drum and repeat the fallacy that it "was SWAPA and its pilots who did all this to screw you." You note above that it was the company that played hardball, and even acknowledge that some Southwest guys tried to warn you, but you've still got guys on here who insist the opposite. It can be hard to extend an olive branch to a guy pointing his middle finger at you and calling you names. You know what I mean? It's also very easy to do on an anonymous forum, and as we see, results in a continual game of tit-for-tat (and yes, I know that there's Southwest pot-stirrers on the forum as well). And all the while, you've got dumbasses like the General on the sideline playing his favorite game called "let's you and he fight."

The good news is that in real life, face to face, I think people are doing exactly what you describe: putting their hand out, working together, and living the golden rule. At least, that's what I've seen on the line. Will their be hiccups? Probably, but I'd say it's working out better than one would guess just by reading this board.

I guess the moral is to stop paying so much attention to what is said in FI.

Bubba

+1

Very well said. But probably a waste of time.

And to add that the company plays hardball with SWA pilots also.