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SWA/FL Codeshare

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madjack said:
ARBITRATION: A panel of judges takes a look at what each group brings to the table and then sticks to precedent...Judges don't like to change 30 years of merger/acq precedent and the precedent has favored the pilot group from the the smaller, acquired carrier...no thanks...we get it AAI wanted SWA seniority, pay, seats and benefits...SWA pilots view AAI as a "less than desirable" career airline...the fact that the AAI pilots were willing to strike in 2009 indicates they felt the same. Many AAI pilots had applications at SWA and those that have transitioned over are happy to be here and realize how good a job at SWA is vs AAI.

Go ahead and gnash those teeth and claim corporate subterfuge and deceit...but the truth of the matter is an arbitrated result based on precedent would have been a collosal windfall for AAI and a complete injustice to all SWA pilots who worked their entire careers for a job at SWA, started at the bottom and earned their seniority/seat at SWA.

AAI pilots who byatch and moan will be viewed by their RSW peers as ungrateful whiners, who received a chance to work at a great company with relatively little cost of entry...and are complaining that they couldn't gain more over their coworkers...
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Really? They ONLY stick to precedent? They probably wouldn't have given SWA all of the Capt slots, that's for sure. If one airline brings some planes both will use, some of their Capts would have stayed in their seats, that's just basic. No wonder.....sounds like someone didn't want "fair?" (Hence the anger)



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
GL,

You don't understand arbitration...arbitrators are bound by precedent, and by definition cannot take into account anything other than seat/class and category...given those constraints the acquired smaller airline will ALWAYS gain more than the acquiring airline's pilots...is that fair? Depends on your vantage point...
 
ATLpilot and Fletch,

Your "I got hosed" attitude won't play well when you get on the SWA side...keep it on the anonymous forum...just sayin...the sad part is that the vocal AAI pilot's in this forum are so, well, "pilot like" in their selective view of history and fact as they try to spin the insanity of turning down SL9 and then not having the balls to follow through to arbitration...hell you were willing to burn AAI down with a strike, why blink at GK?? Maybe because you really wanted a job at SWA...
 
"To expect to be treated as an equal. we are a bunch of greedy worthless bags of S$&t"

You said it I did not...you won't admit you got a job at SWA and that was pretty good deal...all you can do is Byatch about your loss, well blame your ex-CEO for putting you up for sale...don't expect us to give you OUR seniority...yeah greedy is a good word...
 
madjack said:
GL,

You don't understand arbitration...arbitrators are bound by precedent
Click to expand...

You clearly know absolutely nothing about arbitration. Arbitrators are bound by nothing, unless both sides get them to agree on limitations before the arbitration, which obviously doesn't apply here. Arbitrators tend to like precedent, yes, but they aren't bound to it at all. In fact, arbitrators in SLIs always point out that "each case turns on its own facts," to make it clear that their decision is not based on any precedent, merely on what they feel is fair in that specific case.
 
"You clearly know absolutely nothing about arbitration. Arbitrators are bound by nothing, unless both sides get them to agree on limitations before the arbitration, which obviously doesn't apply here. Arbitrators tend to like precedent, yes, but they aren't bound to it at all. In fact, arbitrators in SLIs always point out that "each case turns on its own facts," to make it clear that their decision is not based on any precedent, merely on what they feel is fair in that specific case."


BULL******************** and you know it of all people...arbitrators are scared to death to deviate from precedent and that precedent has favored the smaller acquired pilot group at the expense of the larger airline's pilot group (take a GOOD look at FEDEX/Flying Tiger)
 
madjack said:
BULL******************** and you know it of all people...arbitrators are scared to death to deviate from precedent and that precedent has favored the smaller acquired pilot group at the expense of the larger airline's pilot group (take a GOOD look at FEDEX/Flying Tiger)
Click to expand...

Like I said, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
 
SWA/FO said:
Sorry didn't realize 9 aircraft was such a huge part of your "healthy" airlines' fleet.
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It would have represented 6% growth, as opposed to moving into somebodies still warm seat. FOs upgrading and Captains getting more senior.

Something that you couldn't do anymore, without the airline equivalent of stealing a ladies handbag.
 
frostyboy said:
PCL, why are you still working for AT/SWA?? You seem miserable.
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Actually, I'm quite happy on this side of the partition, thanks.
 
I guess that 'Captains composure' isn't your strong point ?
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I am just the PF (Pilot Flying) in that example. See we swap legs at Southwest Airlines, you dont have to be a Captain to fly the airplane here.
 
frostyboy said:
That I sense, but it's inevitable that you will be soon working for SWA. Do you plan on staying, or look for employment elsewhere? Working for a company you despise sucks!
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Nah, I'm planning on leaving before the transition.
 
PCL_128 said:
Nah, I'm planning on leaving before the transition.
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Try to hold out until 2014, some 717 hiring may be happening at that time....


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Try to hold out until 2014, some 717 hiring may be happening at that time....


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

General, at the rate they're screwing this merger up, I could probably wait until 2025, and they still wouldn't have transitioned everyone. ;)
 
PCL,

You'll be ditching the wings and gold epaulets soon enough and we will all be in this together, like it or not...
 
General Lee said:
Ummmm, you don't seem to understand arbitration. A guy, or a group of them, listen to each side (union people) talk about what each side is bringing to the table, etc. Then, they decide, without any outside influence. They are getting paid a fee, they don't have bias, they are called NEUTRALS. Then, they give the award, and an explanation. If people are upset, they are upset at the arbitrators, not their own people or management. If you think SWA had "all the goods" for this merger, the arbitrators would probably see it that way also, and would have awarded accordingly. It's just that easy, and your people decided against it. That was bad.....


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

I'm quite certain he knows how arbitration works, but I'm sure he appreciates the unsolicted lesson. What you don't understand is that another main goal of the arbitrator is to ensure his or her future employment.
 
CA Calypso said:
I'm quite certain he knows how arbitration works, but I'm sure he appreciates the unsolicted lesson. What you don't understand is that another main goal of the arbitrator is to ensure his or her future employment.
Click to expand...

Wait, both airlines get to choose the arbitrator. There are many out there, and both sides try to find some that are acceptable to both parties. Even the USAir East guys approved of Nicelau. If you are "the hammer", you then lose popularity. Remember, after the award there is always a multi page explanation. There are usually good reasons why they award the way they do. It's not just a "here it is, enjoy it...."



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
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