SWA Fires a Newhire?!

[ivauir]

Just flew with a LCA who said we'd let one go but doesn't fit this profile (maybe there's two). The REALLY important point is that this individual was giving more than threee times the regular IOE. If you are lucky enough to get hired here this company WILL BEND OVER BACKWARDS for you. Nobody is cracking whips here and I have enjoyed EVERY trip I've had with a check airman. Nobody stress - PLEASE. Do prepare and do work hard. This is a fun place and none of us feel under the gun.

 

[FN FAL]

...One more - new hire FE on IOE, was fired for NOT doing a walk-around. The check airman KNEW this gal didn't do the walkaround, while the new hire swore up and down that she had. They gave her 5 opportunities to recant, but she never did. Adios!

Geeze! Why wouldn't you do the walk around? Was she late getting to work or something?

I would develop ticks or something if I took off in plane that I didn't pre-flight!

 

[Maynard]

This isn't the first this year....

SWA has let go of at least three new-hires this year. I heard this last one coming, (the chick), but I didn't hear the reason why. The one last month was let go because of a bad attitude. He did his IOE, the check airman told him that he needed some more IOE and scheduled it on his days off. The FO said "sorry, I have plans for my days off". Management said "see ya". No brainer. SWA is finally admitting that they hire a problem once in a while. It's about time.

 

[ivauir]

He did his IOE, the check airman told him that he needed some more IOE and scheduled it on his days off. The FO said "sorry, I have plans for my days off". Management said "see ya". No brainer.

But the important thing is he got those days off.

 

[avoidingmyboss]

SWA has hired three people from my company in the last five years. I hope to be the forth. One did not make it off IOE. I ran into him some time ago but never had the ba11s to ask why he left SWA during IOE. I think he liked the corporate gigs better. He could run his own show and do things his way.

For some SWA my not be the end all be all. Some people don’t like flying 4-6 legs day with 20-30m min turns. Others may want to fly something different and do international stuff. I say more power to them. The bottom line is go where you can be happy and make sure that this is the right move for you and your family.

And yeah I know SWA is one of the only companies hiring. I’ll say this before anyone tees off and says, “no one is hiring.”

FN FAL/Hyde, Red says "your all on pot"

 

[Maynard]

True...

But the important thing is he got those days off.

The old regime use to fire instructors when new-hires had trouble. The new regime at the TC is taking care of business. Think about some of the avoidance bid CA's in Oakland that wouldn't be here now with the new regime. For you folks coming to training, all you have to do is be respectfull and humble.

 

[pilot1704]

maybe they finally get rid of all those ex military guys

I hope they finally at SW realize that been ex-military guy does not mean great pilot etc... More room for regional guys!

 

[FN FAL]

FN FAL/Hyde, Red says "your all on pot"

Shhhhhhhhhhhh! Don't let it get out...everybody will want some!

 

[FN FAL]

I hope they finally at SW realize that been ex-military guy does not mean great pilot etc... More room for regional guys!

I think Albie just posted a spiel about FedEx chucking some regional guys...I'll bet some of those could even spelled gooder.

 

[Maynard]

It has nothing to do with that, almost...

My point is...if you care...The new leadership in the Training Center has realized that a pilot can get tons of interview training, enough to get through the process, and not have any instrument skills or be a total @#shole in reallity. This happens. I worked in the TC for 3 and a half years, and saw it once in a while. I did my job and got them through training, but watched some of my co-workers get fired because some piece of s&^t couldn't hack it. Most of them were military that haven't flown in a while, some that have but had a really bad attitude and some civilian. Doesn't matter, the good news is that they are being fair now.

 

[Aubie]

Take that attitude and shove it

It's pretty piss-poor that when someone writes a post about a rumor that a SWA new-hire gets canned somehow an assumption is made that it's a prior military guy, and suddenly everyone of you guys with chips on your shoulders starts taking cheap shots at military pilots. (Or to mention another recent post, when a military instructor-type just posts an innocent question about SWA calling T-34 guys some jacknutz fires off and advises military guys need to "pay their dues.")

Fellas, that's pretty pathetic and unprofessional. I have flown single seat and multipiloted aircraft in the navy for 10 years now and if I were to start making petty and unprofessional generalizations, it would be about the small number of GA and commercial guys I ran into at FBO's that had gigantic chips on their shoulders and thought it appropriate to give me unsolicited criticism of everything military. But I don't - the commercial guys I have had the privilege of getting to know through my type rating and interviewing at SWA were all truly outstanding guys and I'm a better pilot and person for knowing them. Those were all the kind of guys that would make great pilots at SWA - professional aviators with great attitudes - NOT guys that peruse posts looking for their chance to fire off at guys who got their flying experience through a different avenue than their own. I could go off on a tangent and detail the quality and difficulty of military training and a military flying career but I won't - that's NOT the purpose of this forum. And it's pretty pathetic that anyone from any background should have to defend himself here anyhow.

To the 99.9% of civilian guys whose time I have wasted with my ranting - I apologize. You guys are awesome. To you guys in the extreme but vocal minority who for some reason harbor resentments or jealosies towards military pilots - GET OVER IT. Petty attitudes like that will surface when you interview and the only one who gets screwed is you. Great companies like SWA aren't looking for guys with deep-seated prejudices.

And the next time someone suggests we military guys "pay our dues" - call me and tell me that when you've brought aboard a 50K lb airplane with one engine out aboard the only airport within 3K miles and it's pitching back and forth in seas so rough you can see the screws coming up out of the water.

 

[ivauir]

Ok the Captain has turned on the "simma down" sign. So ya'll just simma down.

Good and bad pilots come in all shapes, sizes and have a wide variety of backgrounds. The training here is great and not intended to weed anybody out (so again I say simma down). I just don't want any of our new hires (or potential new hires) to freak out. I have personally known folks who have struggled here (both mil and civies, so don't even start). None of the folks I know like this got fired, in fact that never even came up. They all got the training they needed (they all had great attitudes).

 

[737 Pylt]

Bingo!

Petty attitudes like that will surface when you interview and the only one who gets screwed is you. Great companies like SWA aren't looking for guys with deep-seated prejudices.

Exactly!
Then they look at themselves and say, gosh, why didn't I get hired with all my flight time/experience?!?! True attitude shines through in an interview!
737

 

[Schiphol]

long time listener first time caller...love the show.

Aubie...way to bring the heat on the first post. Sounds just like a conversation we had recently.

And to second what the Aubster said...

This 'rarified' profession of ours has enough nastiness in it these days.
The amount of darkness in this industry today all but blots out the few bright lights we do continue to have in the industry. Be these people of good reputation (Neeleman, Kelleher Aubie) or companies who help themselves while helping the greater good.

Southwest, in my humble opinion, is one of those shining beacons of light. And not only because SWA is hiring...but because they seek out people that are good for this industry. It is by no coincidence or bizarre twist of fate that these people are simply Good people as well.

Life is too short and flying is too fun to be petty about who is getting a better deal; or to be bitter because some dude with only 2000 hours of single seat time screwed away a chance you wish you had had.

Dude, some dorky British cat married Jennifer Connelly...you don't hear me complaining anymore. Well, at least not since the restraining order.

Do what you do because you love to do it. Don't decry someone else's good fortune (and subsequent bad fortune) because it was not yours. Everyone gets their opportunity in the Cosmic batter's box....just make the most of it when you get there. Don't bitch because the dude in front of you popped out to left field.

Eh, thats enough. Be like Fonzie.

 

[Juvat]

Amen brutha

Aubie and Schiphol--you guys hit the nail on the head.

 

[Aubie]

OK.....may have gotten a little carried away on my last - my apologies. Not trying to upset anyone, just came across a few anti-military comments on some other threads recently. Sorry if I stirred the pot....just standing up for my brothas.

That stinks, BTW, about Jennifer Connelly. Now I know why she doesn't return my calls....

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Aubie..

While i agree with your post..I didnt get the idea that anyone was running down the military guys..

But..I will add this..

Flying a single seat weapons system does very little to prepare anyone for flying the line in a 737..

Its the same the other way around..If ive never flown a F-16 and was put into the training pipeline to do so after having flown nothing but 737s..It wouldnt be a pretty site..

But..In both cases the training system will more than likely provide the required training..
Success will depend on both the effort and the attitude employed during training..

In both of these cases,I feel that it would be normal and reasonable for it to be a difficult transition..

A persons attitude while dealing with difficulties is usually the difference between success and failure..

Since the military doesnt issue one and the civies cant buy one..I guess that attitude is still considered a part of the individual and not because of where they came from.

So..What does it matter?Theres good and bad in both..

I dont care how you slice it..

We all paid dues of some kind..

Its just that some of us didnt learn anything from it..

Mike

 

[Tripower455]

We all paid dues of some kind..

Its just that some of us didnt learn anything from it..

In a nutshell...........

 

[RJP]

I hope they finally at SW realize that been ex-military guy does not mean great pilot etc... More room for regional guys!

Hope your resume looks better than your post. Thanks for the in-depth input.

Aubie, I thought your long post was a shack. It gets tiring to have to answer questions about why guys with military training often get hired with lower time.

There's a lot of haters out there!

 

[RJP]

Flying a single seat weapons system does very little to prepare anyone for flying the line in a 737..

Its the same the other way around..If ive never flown a F-16 and was put into the training pipeline to do so after having flown nothing but 737s..It wouldnt be a pretty site..

But..In both cases the training system will more than likely provide the required training..
Success will depend on both the effort and the attitude employed during training..
Mike

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think you're a bit off base on some of this. Flying single-seat does a lot to prepare you to fly the line in a 737. Consider the fact that you're flying a $30mil aircraft 540kts at 500'AGL while trying to maintain your formation with lead and find the right spot to pop and deliver your bombs. Now keep in mind that you are probably doing this with 300-400 total time with no one else in the jet to help out. Going 300kts at FL300 with a crew doesn't seem so daunting.

While I'm sure a lot of folks will disagree, the transition can be made smoothly if effort is put in by said fighter pilot. Some guys make the transition easier than others. After flying aircraft to their limits for a number of years, if you're willing and have a good attitude, transitioning to the world of 25º bank turns can be painless.

Now, as for a 737 guy learning to fly a fighter, the transition has historically been difficult for some. Having to "unlearn" all the civilian ways of flying when you've got 2000tt and getting yelled at by a FAIP with 300tt is too much for some guys to handle. The guard and reserve guys that usually don't make it through pilot training are the ones with high time, poor attitudes and the feeling that their experience outside the military will carry them through.

But you're right that a good attitude and effort will carry you a long way.