SWA Fires a Newhire?!

[sandman2122]

WTF,

Heard through the neighborhood "wives club" that a SWA new hire was fired during his IOE. He was a retired AF A-10/T-38 guy too. Come on, after getting the type rating and finishing training SWA actually let go of someone!! I didn't hear of any accidents so it couldn't have that bad........

Sounds like the LCA's are cracking their whips. I've heard of several busts here at FedEx during initial 727 S/O sim checks......

Surprised.

 

[RVR300]

Just because you have a type doesn't mean you'll be successful at SWA.

Although rare, it does happen. Could be attitude, performance, flying skills, ability to recognize he's not an A-10 pilot anymore, ability to take constructive criticism, etc.

The guys that seem to have the problems here are the ones that are unable to separate and recognize their past from the present.

Sad the guy not make it, given the number of hurdles you have to cross to get here, but if he was let go, rest assured he needed to go.

 

[johnny taliban]

who?

WTF,

Heard through the neighborhood "wives club" that a SWA new hire was fired during his IOE. He was a retired AF A-10/T-38 guy too. Come on, after getting the type rating and finishing training SWA actually let go of someone!! I didn't hear of any accidents so it couldn't have that bad........

Sounds like the LCA's are cracking their whips. I've heard of several busts here at FedEx during initial 727 S/O sim checks......

Surprised.

What is an LCA???

 

[bayoubandit]

Line checkairman

 

[sandman2122]

Yeah, what he said!

Basically an Instructor qualified to also give Evaluations in the jet or a revenue trip.

 

[miles otoole]

You'll see some more, from what I have heard.

 

[pa56pa]

can be a number of reasons.. attitude is a plus at SWA, but highly unlikely to get fired due to it.... more likely to get fired with drug test failure if anything... that's in any company.

 

[Tripower455]

Heard through the neighborhood "wives club" that a SWA new hire was fired during his IOE. He was a retired AF A-10/T-38 guy too. Come on, after getting the type rating and finishing training SWA actually let go of someone!! I didn't hear of any accidents so it couldn't have that bad........

Sounds like the LCA's are cracking their whips. I've heard of several busts here at FedEx during initial 727 S/O sim checks......

Surprised.

Barring REALLY bad airmanship, or the above mentioned drug test, the only way to get canned when on IOE/probation is ATTITUDE..........

In my personal experience, a lot of the retired, single seat guys are the WORST at recieving constructive criticism (the "I'm right....... even when I'm wrong", syndrome ). While they certainly don't corner the market on this attitude, some of them are insufferable and can't concieve that airline operations are quite different than military operations, and that they really don't know it all......

 

[The5th]

I agree. Military jocks, in my opinions, aren't as hot as they want to be. Not worse either. After talking to others in this business, and who share my experience some military guys could benefit from taking a class in humbleness 101. On the other hand, there's nothing like having a brand new F/O next to you in the 250-750 hour range. Thats a study of how not to stumble into the cockpit.

 

[Eagleflip]

Military jocks, in my opinions, aren't as hot as they want to be. Not worse either.

Well said. Much as I'd like to say otherwise, there is a TREMENDOUS learning curve during the military-civilian 121 transition. Either you acknowledge becoming a student again or you become an "auto-tool," and not a very useful one at that.

A good pilot is always learning, no matter what their background is. And that holds true for Captains as well. Lawd knows I've had to eat crow a few times since upgrade.

But I try not to make those mistakes again!

 

[AlbieF15]

I've flown Eagles, Broncos, tons of GA airplanes, and I'm currently tramatizing and beating the he11 out of the poor 727 sim.

What a fighter brings into the fight is confidence and the knowledge that any new plane is going to require some study, finess, and respect. Any airplane can bite you, and every airplane requries its own special touch. Had several buddies get their eyes opened when getting their ATP in a Seminole at how difficult it can be to manage an airplane that is (relatively) underpowered single engine and just a few knots above Vmc. I've also seen guys out on the line from other backgrounds get "rushed" while going only 5 miles a minute below 10,000 MSL, which is about 1/4 of the speed a fighter guy has to make decisions when he's doing a mach to mach intercept to a merge.

So who is the best pilot out there? IMHO, the one who doesn't quit learning. The guys who quit trying to get better because they either know it all or don't have the fire in the belly to get better are the guys who are a drag to have to fly with. We've all seen the IP, or LCA, or just relative blowhard goon something up here or there. My goal is just not to be that guy...

Now back to FOM study. What is this RVR stuff about, anyway?

 

[ILStoMinimums]

I've flown Eagles, Broncos, tons of GA airplanes, and I'm currently tramatizing and beating the he11 out of the poor 727 sim.

What a fighter brings into the fight is confidence and the knowledge that any new plane is going to require some study, finess, and respect. Any airplane can bite you, and every airplane requries its own special touch. Had several buddies get their eyes opened when getting their ATP in a Seminole at how difficult it can be to manage an airplane that is (relatively) underpowered single engine and just a few knots above Vmc. I've also seen guys out on the line from other backgrounds get "rushed" while going only 5 miles a minute below 10,000 MSL, which is about 1/4 of the speed a fighter guy has to make decisions when he's doing a mach to mach intercept to a merge.

So who is the best pilot out there? IMHO, the one who doesn't quit learning. The guys who quit trying to get better because they either know it all or don't have the fire in the belly to get better are the guys who are a drag to have to fly with. We've all seen the IP, or LCA, or just relative blowhard goon something up here or there. My goal is just not to be that guy...

Now back to FOM study. What is this RVR stuff about, anyway?

Congrats on the window seat! So I'm assuming the 727 is junior to the MD-11 in ANC?

 

[Huck]

So who is the best pilot out there?

You're looking at him, sweetheart.



(O.K., maybe not, but I bet I can pour coffee better than you....)

 

[Tripower455]

Had several buddies get their eyes opened when getting their ATP in a Seminole at how difficult it can be to manage an airplane that is (relatively) underpowered single engine and just a few knots above Vmc. I've also seen guys out on the line from other backgrounds get "rushed" while going only 5 miles a minute below 10,000 MSL, which is about 1/4 of the speed a fighter guy has to make decisions when he's doing a mach to mach intercept to a merge.

Neither of these situations will get you canned from IOE at SWA.

A "know it all" attitude can and has gotten folks fired.

Our LCAs are, by and large, really good guys, have all been new at one time, and are there to TEACH new hires how to operate SWA airplanes the way that SWA want's them operated. The same goes even after IOE, flying with plain old line Capts. I have had a few (very few, in fact) new FOs who just couldn't/wouldn't take construtive criticism.

I am not a flight instructor, but if the guy is messing up, or I feel might benefit from a technique I might have, I'll interject it (and I expect vice versa........ the day you quit learning in this business is the day you get real dangerous).

The guys who aren't open to learning, regardless of their backrounds, are the ones that will have problems. A weak airman with a good attitude and willingness to learn will go farther than a know it all Chuck Yeager with a bad attitude. SWA weeds the worst offenders out.

If they are like that as FO's, they become INSUFFERABLE and potentially dangerous as Captains, because they will not accept any opinion other than their own......

Anybody can get "target fixated" and lose sight of the big picture. It's the guys who get there, and ignore any outside input that concern me (and SWA). In my experience, the worst offenders (with a few glaring and notable exceptions) are "retiredairforcefighterpilotcolonelsthatliveinftwaltonbeach", but there are others (not at all limited to the ex military guys......... there are some real doozy civilians too) .

 

[SWA/FO]

Have a great attitude, keep your clothes on and you will be able to use that 737 type rating for a long time at SWA. Most guys fired had a bad attitude, got naked while flying or LIED to the company.

 

[Ted Striker]

...keep your clothes on ....

Jeez, what is this Nazi Germany?? You guys are strict!!

 

[KC-10 Driver]

SWA/FO raised a good point. It MIGHT have been that the company discovered that this person lied, or withheld information, on his application or some other form.

I've seen it happen before -- a pilot gets through training, is on the line, and the company somehow finds out he/she was less than fully truthful about something in the hiring process. I personally know someone who was fired from a major airline more than 6 months after IOE for this very thing.

However, I don't know anything about this particular situation. Just offering another possibility.

 

[juan2go]

fired......

Some new hires are weak and barely make it through sim. If the trend continues during ioe and there appears to be no hope, adios.

I recently flew with a new hire who had a classmate that did not "make it" through SWA training. Sims were very weak. Company took the individual aside and said, not much more that we can do. Apparently it had been close to two years since the individual had separated from the A/F and he had done no flying/sim. while awaiting a class date. The company, to their credit, told him that if he wanted to go somewhere (anywhere) and get some sim. time so that he was more current (competent), they would place him in the next class.

He chose to end his flying career.

I think that the company does all that they can to help someone "make it through".

Regards,

juan

 

[Swede]

Re: lying on the resume... there's a famous AA story about a guy who worked with computers in the Air Force, and created for himself a fictitious flying career with gobs of time. He was hired on this basis. The story goes, he flew as a 727FE for a year, then was busted during his FO upgrade when it was apparent that he couldn't fly for $hit.


Another firing offense - there was apparently a guy who was an identical twin. He basically sucked, while his brother was Chuck Yeager. Whenever the sucky guy had recurrent training or any form of a check, the Yeager-twin would sub in and earn rave reviews from the check airman. Not sure how he was busted.

One more - new hire FE on IOE, was fired for NOT doing a walk-around. The check airman KNEW this gal didn't do the walkaround, while the new hire swore up and down that she had. They gave her 5 opportunities to recant, but she never did. Adios!

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

I can tell you from personal experiences that SWA WILL bend over backwards to be both fair and supportive with anyone..

How far they will go always depended on the attitude of the person envolved.

If you are straight with them and display a great attitude they will always be in your corner..

Lie or abuse the companys trust and you will be history..

If you are one of those that feel its your job to always push the "press to test" button...At least be smart enough not to during probation..

From what ive heard..Attitude is the cause of most pilot terminations during probation..

If..And thats a big if..Somebody got canned,they worked hard at it..

Mike