SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[RLAblows]

Wow! Doesn't say much for your "culture." Sounds like every other legacy now.

 

[scoreboardII]

Culture is what we own, management has no control over that, and they have proven it these past few years.

What your trying to say is our old ways of the one LUV company are dead, management and workers working together. Untrue. Herb was a cutthroat negotiator on every level, the difference is he was a leader, and proved it. We know where we stand with GK, we just need to be sure to get everything in writing as all of his words are hollow unless backed up by documentation. The AT guys showed us this lesson, and that's not a slam on the AT guys, its just that when we see how they treat them, we are not going let that happen to us.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yup...

Well, PCL should take some of the blame. Just because.

According to the DFR case filed against ALPA he was quoted as saying this:

"Too many of you are talking about 'how the pilots need to be able to decide for themselves.' Execute me, but bullsh!t. Direct democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner... . The MEC must do the right thing and protect the pilots by voting this down at the MEC level and sending the Merger Committee back to the table, or to arbitration whichever the case may be."

According to the documents filed in the suit he went on to say:

"There isn't the slightest chance in he!! that an arbitrator would award anything less date of hire."

The suit contends that although he was the ALPA Executive Vice President he was not writing as an ALPA officer but sharing "nothing more than my own personal thoughts as an AirTran line pilot."

I'm not 100% certain he said these things or not and am relying on documents submitted in a lawsuit, but they were placed in quotation marks as if they were direct quotes. Maybe he can shed some light on whether they are accurate quotes or completely fictitious.

http://ia700806.us.archive.org/25/items/gov.uscourts.gand.181455/gov.uscourts.gand.181455.1.0.pdf

 

[DonVerita]

Of course. But, FWIW, every FAT guy I've flown with have said that they are much happier over here than they ever were over there. Most have been former Capts too.

That's because most of those OAT CA's that have gone over have done so voluntarily because they reside in one of your bases. Not having to commute is a powerful motivational factor. For some, losing one's CA seat and taking an hourly pay cut is palatable if it means living in base. It also helps to not have 2 or 3 alimony payments/month .

When the forced displacements of OAT CA's to SWA F/O start, I believe you will see those numbers skew in the other direction unfortunately.

 

[texman]

That's because most of those OAT CA's that have gone over have done so voluntarily because they reside in one of your bases. Not having to commute is a powerful motivational factor. For some, losing one's CA seat and taking an hourly pay cut is palatable if it means living in base. It also helps to not have 2 or 3 alimony payments/month .

When the forced displacements of OAT CA's to SWA F/O start, I believe you will see those numbers skew in the other direction unfortunately.

So who is coming first JR AT pilots or SR AT pilots?

 

[Tripower455]

That's because most of those OAT CA's that have gone over have done so voluntarily because they reside in one of your bases. Not having to commute is a powerful motivational factor. For some, losing one's CA seat and taking an hourly pay cut is palatable if it means living in base. It also helps to not have 2 or 3 alimony payments/month .

There's plenty of involuntary commute pain being felt on our side already. And it's gonna get worse. And it's an actual pay cut (as in smaller pay checks) for many of them too.

Oh, and I thought we already discussed the "hourly" thing a few pages back.

As for the 201K and 101K victims, we've got plenty of them too.

When the forced displacements of OAT CA's to SWA F/O start, I believe you will see those numbers skew in the other direction unfortunately.

Awesome.

 

[DonVerita]

We know where we stand with GK, we just need to be sure to get everything in writing as all of his words are hollow unless backed up by documentation. The AT guys showed us this lesson, and that's not a slam on the AT guys, its just that when we see how they treat them, we are not going let that happen to us.

Very true. "Us" now means the both of us; so let's make sure that going forward there is just one "US".

 

[scoreboardII]

Very true. "Us" now means the both of us; so let's make sure that going forward there is just one "US".

Bam!

GK may not realize, but he just formulated the union he deserves.

 

[PCL_128]

According to the DFR case filed against ALPA he was quoted as saying this:

"Too many of you are talking about 'how the pilots need to be able to decide for themselves.' Execute me, but bullsh!t. Direct democracy is nothing more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner... . The MEC must do the right thing and protect the pilots by voting this down at the MEC level and sending the Merger Committee back to the table, or to arbitration whichever the case may be."

According to the documents filed in the suit he went on to say:

"There isn't the slightest chance in he!! that an arbitrator would award anything less date of hire."

The suit contends that although he was the ALPA Executive Vice President he was not writing as an ALPA officer but sharing "nothing more than my own personal thoughts as an AirTran line pilot."

I'm not 100% certain he said these things or not and am relying on documents submitted in a lawsuit, but they were placed in quotation marks as if they were direct quotes. Maybe he can shed some light on whether they are accurate quotes or completely fictitious.

http://ia700806.us.archive.org/25/items/gov.uscourts.gand.181455/gov.uscourts.gand.181455.1.0.pdf

Strange, I looked all through the lawsuit, and I couldn't find anyone mentioned by the name of PCL_128. So there's not anything for me to "shed some light on" for you. Sorry.

 

[Tripower455]

Strange, I looked all through the lawsuit, and I couldn't find anyone mentioned by the name of PCL_128. So there's not anything for me to "shed some light on" for you. Sorry.

True, but your name is all over it.......

Nice job!

 

[ATLplt]

The AT guys showed us this lesson, and that's not a slam on the AT guys, its just that when we see how they treat them, we are not going let that happen to us.

Did you just admitted that we're getting treated poorly? Finally, someone from the fairy tale side of the partition recognizes this.

 

[27 driver]

So who is coming first JR AT pilots or SR AT pilots?

The latest announcement that cancelled 717 training may change things a bit but I believe it will be junior captains and senior Fo's. There will be a few senior captains forced over out of seniority order.

 

[madjack]

Ok todd

 

[dz505]

All of them do. We know who to blame, and its not a pilot on either side.

+1. That pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 

[madjack]

U were outnegotiated but still got a great deal...

 

[HowardBorden]

Strange, I looked all through the lawsuit, and I couldn't find anyone mentioned by the name of PCL_128. So there's not anything for me to "shed some light on" for you. Sorry.

Sorry, I thought it was relatively common knowledge that was you. Obviously I have been misinformed.

 

[scoreboardII]

Did you just admitted that we're getting treated poorly? Finally, someone from the fairy tale side of the partition recognizes this.

I don't think many from the Magic Kindom ever said you guys got treated well. How it happened is a different story and one rehashed once a month.

 

[waveflyer]

Yep. As long as I could keep my ATL base with roughly the same seniority, I'd have happily integrated.



America West didn't have a fleet of widebodies, they had a handful. It was four airplanes, I believe, and they were wet-leased.



And you're an arrogant pr!ck. Have a nice weekend, wave.

If by "arrogant", you mean "has an opinion about an air tran leader spreading such ridiculous expectations" then yes. That's me.

I think it's much more arrogant to believe that you could be the lesser job, bought, and then think that you could improve on your AT date of hire.
How on earth do you think you're entitled to that?


As for "prick" - yeah, thats probably right on this site- ask sellouts scoot and lumberg- FI for you.

 

[waveflyer]

Sorry, I thought it was relatively common knowledge that was you. Obviously I have been misinformed.

You're not, but this is FI.

I learned that lesson the hard way a while back and had to give a much needed public apology to PCL for spreading a story about his real name. I got called out big time by just about everyone, friend and foe- and rightly so. It's up to each of us to disclose what we want here

 

[waveflyer]

Wow! Doesn't say much for your "culture." Sounds like every other legacy now.

From experience- not close. Even from GK.
on the line- the culture will be created BY US mostly in the individual ways we treat our co-workers
I commit to the culture bc I refuse to punish myself by creating an angrier, less supportive, less nice place to work- just bc I may disagree with a leadership move or style. Or whatever hard negotiating goes on-

It will be what gk makes it- that's true, he is the leader and responsible for a great many things. But it will also be what WE MAKE IT. And we are also responsible for what we do.