SWA commute question

[shootr]

Any SWA guys,

I'm in the pool and assume I'll start early next year. My family has made the commitment to live in the Pensacola area for the next several years and we are trying to decide what the best base for me to eventually fly out of will be. I will try to maximize online commuting as much as possible so consider that if you give me advice.

The best online airport I could fly out of would be MSY, about a 3 hour drive. There are about a billion direct flights a day from MSY to HOU so that seems like my best bet. I've been told that flying out of HOU kind of stinks (-200, Texas 2-step, 8 legs a day, etc.) I know guys living the in same location that commute to BWI online and MCO offline (on Delta). HOU seems like the easier commute for long term but is the flying really that bad, compared to the other bases? Thanks in advance!

shootr

anybody...

 

[shootr]

Just bringing my question back up to the top. Last try...

Thanks in advance,
shootr

 

[PTinbound]

I'm of course no expert (yet) on the HOU flying, but I'm sure that would be a much easier commute than BWI. But, the 200's are going away (though the Texas 2-step surely won't) and there's plenty of good flying to be had in HOU. However, BWI may go slightly more junior so you may get to try both bases to see what you like better.

 

[hobie]

not much to add, but jumped down to PNS from Atlanta a while back and it sounds like the offline commute on Delta would be rough into PNS. The crew said it was rough even online, alot of senior dudes down there.

 

[chase]

shootr

The flying out of BWI & HOU does vary slightly now but that is because of the -200. As stated previously, they will be gone shortly & things will even out I'm sure, by contract they have to in terms of pay. Duty day may be a slightly different situation. In terms of commuting, take a look at the latest OAG book & see how many offline folks it takes to get from PNS to HOU vs. BWI vs. MCO. Things obviously change month to month but hang out at PNS & chat with the DAL guys & ask how it is online commuting.

Plenty of flights from BNA to BWI & shorter trip than to HOU so I would go for BWI myself. What I like about living in the middle of the country is that on the last day one wasn't facing some long hauls to get home unlike in the coastal cities where that seemed to happen to me a lot...just a preference, I don't like longhauls. HOU is getting a new terminal & the new lounge opens up next month so HOU will be growing. I suspect though that BWI will always be junior to HOU so better lines will be had sooner in BWI than HOU...same for Capt upgrade. The growth rate in BWI will obviously be large in the future also. Just a few more thoughts on the subject. Congrats on being in the pool, we'll see you soon in DAL. PM me if you have any questions.

 

[PTinbound]

FlyChigaga,
I'm pretty sure SWA has a 2 hour call up, which is really like 1.5 hours MAX away from the airport because you have to allow for employee parking/bus and walking into the crew room to sign in. So at 2 1/2 hours away you really couldn't do reserve from home unless you drove at least an hour closer in and sat around all day in a library or something. But that's not extremely realistic. More likely you might want a crashpad while you were on reserve.

As far as a line holder, it would be a bit easier.
Most trips are either AM or PM. The AM trips usually start around O'dark thirty and finish the last day at some reasonably early hour, whereas the PM trips could start anywhere from noon to five and finish up when the last flight lands somewhere past 11pm on the last day. So if you drive and don't want to spend money on a hotel, for an AM trip you'd have to get up ridiculously early the first day, or on a PM trip you'd get home pretty darned late the last day. All things considered, it would still be better than a pure "commuter" in the strictest sense of the word.

As far as the senior/junior lineholder thing, the only difference really is how many days you work and which days those are.
For example, I just had lunch today with my friend who is a senior OAK FO. He had a 3 day trip that started every Tuesday during June, with a 4 day weekend EVERY weekend. Of course, he didn't realize that I put arsenic in his chicken which would accelerate me taking his place in OAK.

Now, the flip side to a three day trip every Tuesday would be the less efficient (more hotel time/less flying time) four day trip that starts every Friday and pays the same. I was happy to remind my friend that if he survived the arsenic to upgrade next year, this is the kind of trip that he'd be doing, with me still trying to kill him but this time from the right seat.

As always, take this with the caveat that I'm still just a wannabe myself, though perhaps I've got more experience as a SWA wannabe than just about anyone out there. If a real SWA pilot has anything to add/correct, please feel free! Hope it helped!

 

[Snoopy58]

How much of a strain would it be on a pilot's "quality of life" trying to commute into a hub city via car from around 2 - 2 1/2 hours away? Would it be hell on reserve? How about with just an average line, or a senior line? Jumpseating not being an option.

I'll go out on a limb here & guess that you might be thinking of commuting by car in to MDW. Since it's a commuter base anyway, with most guys coming in from considerably farther away, you'd be closer than most, and it wouldn't really hurt your QOL that much, imho. Here's why I say that:

1. First, reserve. You'll need a crashpad to sit reserve, as PT explained. Good news, they're plentiful & cheap & close at MDW. With a car & some familiarity with the city, you'll be a hero for your buds, in fact! Also, with a reasonable rate of hiring after you, you'll be off reserve at MDW within 3 or 4 months, unless you decide you prefer to sit reserve (get weekday lines quicker that way, try to pass & pick up extra flying/charters on the weekends, whatever). Of course, if you're in the last class of the year, your progress will be slower.

2. Next, hard lines. With the new rigs, it seems like the lines are somewhat more commuter friendly. If you look for the 0900 report / 1600 release lines, you can find them. Or the 1300 report / 2000 release. Of course, if you seek THOSE out, you won't have so much flexibility to try to maximize pay, or get weekends off, or whatever. Even fairly junior, you can often (though aggressive trip trading & creative bid strategies) get any ONE thing that you want (pay, commutable lines, weekends off, etc). It's much harder to get what you want as you start asking for more & more.

3. An option: keep your crashpad even with hard lines. They're around $165/mo for assigned beds, less for hot bunks, and sometimes you WILL get a trip starting at 0500 or finishing at 2345 -- so it may make sense to keep one just for those times. Having the crashpad, you can focus your bidding/trading around whatever ELSE you want, & not worry about "commutable" trips. And, with a 2.5 hour drive home, departing ANY TIME YOU WANT to, you'll have a far easier commute than many folks who commute to MDW from DAL/BNA/MCI/etc/etc/etc. And they generally do okay for QOL, even with the commute.

4. The big upside to your situation: Extra Fly! When scheduling calls you the day before & offers you a trip you'd like the next day, you're in a much better position to say "yes" & hop in the car than the guy who is commuting by jumpseat... you KNOW you can be there in time, and it's less hassel for you than for a lot of your peers at a mostly commuter base like MDW. THEREFORE, you'll have options for picking up stuff that guys above you didn't take (because they didn't want the headache of jumpseating x2 for a day of flying -- even at good $ / easy trip /whatever). At a non-commuter base, trips like that get snapped up senior.

So, you'll need a crashpad, but in terms of QOL I think you'd be doing pretty good.

Make sense?

Shootr --

Plenty of guys go MSY to HOU for the commute -- there's a lot to be said for a short commute with lots of flights to get on! I wouldn't let the 2-step thing discourage you too much -- that is NOT the majority of HOU lines, and the day goes surprisingly quickly. IN ANY EVENT, you'll have ample time to talk to people & decide for yourself what works best for you. But, imho, the HOU flying is plenty good -- the slight improvement at MCO/BWI not worth the longer commute, not by a long shot.

Cheers!

Snoopy

 

[UGApilotDAWG]

Flights pretty much every half hour from the Big Easy to Houston. That's going to be my commute.... well as soon as I get the call for class! How long (assuming consistent hiring from the pool behind me) does it take to get to HOU? And do most folks that like to fly AM lines commute in the night before , stay at a hotel, fly their line, then just jumpseat in the PM the last day after their line is done? Still keeping my fingers crossed... way too much shrinkage going on in the waterlogged pool!

Les

 

[Maynard]

Commute...

While we are hiring, it takes about 3 months to get out of OAK, and about 6-12 months to get from PHX to HOU ( I don't know about MDW or BWI, and MCO is pretty senior as is DAL). But PHX is an easy commute, great crash pads, wonderful weather, etc. I think AM's are better for commuters. You pretty much have to go the day before whether you get AM's or PM's, until you get to HOU, then sometimes you will be able to leave the day of your trip, depending on your schedule. Also, with AM's, you can almost always get home on your last day, unless you finish on Saturday, with our reduced Sat. schedule. Hope that helps...

 

[Sugardaddy]

Another question from a poolie

Anyone,
I am also a poolie looking for some information on sitting reserve. I know somewhere on this board we have hashed out the am/pm reserve question, but could somebody help me out here. I currently live just outside of Houston (about a 40 minute drive to Hobby), which puts me close enough to sit reserve at my house, I think.
If you live in HOU and bid reserve lines, what are the best: am or pm lines?
What are the hours you are “on call” while sitting reserve?
Also, besides the last few months where SWA has been short pilots due to military callups, how much would a person sitting reserve in HOU get called to fly?
While sitting reserve can you request to be the last person called?

If anybody could help me out here, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[T1bubba]

Sugardaddy,

Reserve line times vary by domicile, but AM's are generally something like 0300-2000 and PM's are 1000-0100. I'm sure someone based in HOU can give you their exact times.

As for your other questions, the answer is (of course) it depends. AM's or PM's is more of a personal preference if you live in domicile- is it more painful for you to get called at 0330 for a 0600 show or to fly until 0100 in the morning?

The amount you're used on reserves can vary tremendously. I'm on PM reserve in OAK and despite having a preference to pass flew 15 of 16 days this month. Other friends of mine on AM reserve in OAK didn't fly at all on their last couple blocks. Reserves are more likely to be used on the weekends than weekdays.

You can put a preference to pass or fly in the computer, but in my limited experience it doesn't mean much. Anyone care to take a stab at explaining how the reserve callouts are made?

T1

 

[SWAnnabee]

Texas Lines

Just, curiois. What is the "Texas 2-step"?? If I am lucky enough to get hired with LUV, I will be living in the Corpus Christi area. What would my commute/reserve situation be?? Where does the line start and end and how could I limit my nights away from home?

 

[canyonblue]

Anyone care to take a stab at explaining how the reserve callouts are made? T1

Magic 8 Ball I believe. As far as how long ON reserve, that all depends NOT only on HIRING but on vacancy bids to bases. MDW has been reduced to the size it was when I finally held it 10 months ago. It is starting to grow somewhat, but I will be on reserve for a while longer. With that in mind, DO NOT believe what is the "off reserve time" now, will be that in 1 year. 16 months and that gets me reserve in MDW. I could hold a line in BWI, HOU, PHX, and OAK though. I also hit my reserve guarantee of 96 trips with 2 days of reserve left this month.

 

[Sugardaddy]

Thanks for the info bubba.

Canyon,
Did you say the reserve guarantee is 96 trips? If not, what is the "guarantee" for sitting reserve? Or does it vary from base to base?

 

[Slug]

Anyone care to take a stab at explaining how the reserve callouts are made?

From several conversations with scheduling here is what I gathered, Bubba.

1. The first criteria they look at is the days available vs. days needed. They won't use a 4-day reserve for a 1 day trip unless that is the only person they have. They will try to match up avail vs. needed until they are at the bottom of the barrell. That goes for 1-day, 2-day, 3-day, and 4-day. They would like to keep the multi-day folks around in case a full trip opens up.

2. After that they said they look at reserve guarantee, ie. how may hours are you scheduled for that month. They look at how close someone is to that guarantee. Let's say you and I are sitting reserve in OAK. I mil drop a 4-day block so my guarantee goes from 96 down to 72 hours (16 x 6 vs. 12 x 6). Because it will take more flying to get you over your guarantee, they will tend to fly you over me. As long as you don't fly over 96 credit trips. If you were at 93 trips for the month and I was at 50 they would probably fly me because I shouldn't exceed my monthly guarantee.

3. If those are the same, say at the beginning of the month, then they look at the fly vs. pass preference.

4. If those are the same then they would flip a coin?

I think the magic 8-ball has something to do with it, but who knows?


Slug

Reserve guarantee is 96 trips/month. 16 days x 6 trips/day for reserve. If your reserve carries into the next month you may see less guarantee on your schedule because those days are counted in with the next months trip total.

 

[Snoopy58]

Just, curiois. What is the "Texas 2-step"?? If I am lucky enough to get hired with LUV, I will be living in the Corpus Christi area. What would my commute/reserve situation be?? Where does the line start and end and how could I limit my nights away from home?

"Texas 2-step" is the nickname for the days spent flying around Texas. Lots of legs, each fairly short, quick turns. The sort of flying that SWA did back when they got started. A typical day might be starting in HOU at 0700, to AUS, to DAL, to HOU, to CRP, to HOU, to SAT, to LBB. Seven legs, probably just under 7 hours of flying, to the hotel maybe around 1600. Probably no plane changes. Probably in a -200 (though they are going away & you see "Texas 2-step" days in -300's & -500's regularly, and on rare occasion in a -700). Lots of legs through DAL & HOU.
There are some similar "California 2 step" schedules as well. It's a lot of work, but the days generally pay pretty well, and they go pretty quickly. When the weather is nice, it's fun. When the Texas wx is bad, well... you're in it all day!

From CRP to about anywhere on SWA goes thru HOU, iirc. So that is the obvious place you'll want to be based.

All trips start & end at the domicile where the trip originates (you can pick up trips from a base other than your own). One nice thing about being based in HOU, it seems like they get most of the CRP overnights. On those trips, you CAN spend the night at home instead of at the hotel no problem.

Your options as far as trips go would be pretty much as described above: Fly AM's & stay in a hotel/crashpad the night before & get home at the end of your last day, OR fly PM's & commute in the same day you start, & probably spend the night when you finish your last day. Driving... an option, if you want to. Sometimes, you'll luck into a trip that you can commute on both ends. One nice thing about HOU: enough people live in domicile that a good portion of the reserve lines go senior. So, if you do NOT want to sit reserve, you can hold a line with fewer people beneath you at HOU than you could at a commuter base like OAK or MDW.

I'm no fan of commuting to sit reserve, so I did it as little as I could. With a long commute, I always tried to get AM reserve, since the night before the reserve block started I would have to spend at the crashpad anyway, and on the last day I'd have a decent chance of being cut loose in time to make a flight home the same day. If I was commuting a short distance to sit reserve (like CRP to HOU), I think I'd probably use the opposite strategy: bid PM reserve, commute in the morning of (not something you can count on doing with a long commute, but possible from MSY or CRP to HOU), and hope that I get assigned a trip that returns to domicile the last day in time to make the last flight back.

Guys can explain strategies like this & more when you're sitting in the crashpad or hanging out in the pilot lounge, and you can use whatever works best for you.

Hope that helps!

P.S. Slug -- excellent explanation of the workings of the Magic 8 Ball! (The end result still looks an awful lot like smoke & mirrors to me, though!)

 

[T1bubba]

The latest vacancy bid is out today. BWI and PHX continue to be the least senior bases after OAK, with MDW not far behind.

Slug,

That sounds about right from what I've seen. Thanks for the explanation. Congrats on BWI, I guess... thought you wanted to stay in MDW?

T1

 

[Falconjet]

JA

Another question for the SWA guys. As far as the JA stuff that was going on, how do they assign those? Are there certain days that you have to answer the phone when not on duty or on reserve? If you are off for a 4 day stretch and schedules calls do you have to answer the phone? I'm just curious how that works. Thanks.

 

[MLBWINGBORN]

Magic 8 Ball..

 

[Boeing4Me]

Re: JA

As far as the JA stuff that was going on, how do they assign those? Are there certain days that you have to answer the phone when not on duty or on reserve? If you are off for a 4 day stretch and schedules calls do you have to answer the phone?

FJet,
The only time you MUST answer the phone is when you are on reserve. ...and that means only during your RAP (reserve availablility period). Many guys will answer the day before a reserve block starts, as many assignments are given more than 12 hours out. Also, during a reserve month you are not eligible for JA (according to the contract).

B4Me