SWA and the 737-800

[Dan Roman]

You will be 'schooled' by Fubag shortly!

LOL That's exactly who came to mind when I posted that!

 

[Dan Roman]

It is not "very common" to bounce people/bags but it does happen. The OAK tech stop statement is true though. Denver would fine as long as they made a quick SWA turn in Oakland. Not sure how the duty day would play out though. Does anyone know if the 900ER jets are going to make it to Hawaii?

I was referring to Non Stop, but how would SWA do a "quick SWA turn" before an ETOPS flight? Sounds like a recipe for a violation to me.
There have been months when more than 50% of the time AK has had to bump bags or bags and Pax's. Winter more than summer obviously.

 

[fam62c]

It seems that the Hawaii market is getting pretty crowded. It must be mostly leisure, low-yield fares and the 737 is probably at a CASM disadvantage when compared to larger planes. Considering all of this is it really worth all the effort SW will put into this market? Where is SW's advantage over other carriers here? It might be nice to put another dot on the route map but will it really make much money?

 

[satpak77]

RE:

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airpor...ulu, HI: Honolulu International&carrier=FACTS

I am sticking to my guess that it will be OAK or LAX-nonstop-HNL. I believe the "Hawaii market" is different than a Dallas-to-Denver traveler who "accepts" an interim stop in AUS/MCI/etc because the ticket is cheap and the service is great.

I think the Hawaii traveler is a different animal and will not desire stops enroute for fuel/etc other reasons.

The HNL traveler is probably more a tourist/vacation (once a year, twice a year, etc) traveler who is not going to loose sleep over paying 150 bucks more to fly Old Legacy Air non-stop, versus save 150 bucks and have to make a fuel stop on SWA. He is already going to HNL for vacation, so comfort and timeliness (he is on vacation, he may have requested time off from his employer, etc.....get to HNL and bang the fiance ? Or spend time buying Cinnabons at an interim stop while refuel occurs ?) are important.

As we know SWA does not do anything without researching it three times over. With that said, I don't know if a "DEN-HNL market" really exists to any extent. SWA is not going to re-invent the wheel.

In any event, good luck and may SWA grow big and strong bones, so it hires when I am retired from my current gig.

 

[IAHERJ]

We run a daily 767-400 on the DEN-HNL run at UAL. Most of the passengers are business travelers cashing in their frequent flier miles for a week of vacation with the family. Hawaii must be doing well because we just put the 777 on our flight #1 daily from IAH-HNL beginning March. ORD-HNL is a 777 and NYC(EWR) runs daily with a 767-400. I won't even try to delve into SFO/LAX/SNA service to Hawaii except to say it varies from 767-300 on down through the 757 and the 737NG's to include the -700 I believe. Then there is HNL Westbound service to GUM and NRT non-stop on the 777's and the island hopper that makes around 5 stops on it's way to GUM on a 737-800. That is just HNL. Pretty sure we serve a few other Hawaiian cities from the West Coast. Any L-UAL guys have further information? Don't think we are going anywhere if SWA decides to serve the islands. In fact I hear we are getting all the 757-300's ETOPS equipped to replace some of the 737's operating out there as well as to add service to HNL/OGG from LAS/SEA and possibly PDX. The more the merrier!

 

[Full of LUV]

RE:

http://www.transtats.bts.gov/airpor...ulu, HI: Honolulu International&carrier=FACTS

I am sticking to my guess that it will be OAK or LAX-nonstop-HNL. I believe the "Hawaii market" is different than a Dallas-to-Denver traveler who "accepts" an interim stop in AUS/MCI/etc because the ticket is cheap and the service is great.

I think the Hawaii traveler is a different animal and will not desire stops enroute for fuel/etc other reasons.

The HNL traveler is probably more a tourist/vacation (once a year, twice a year, etc) traveler who is not going to loose sleep over paying 150 bucks more to fly Old Legacy Air non-stop, versus save 150 bucks and have to make a fuel stop on SWA. He is already going to HNL for vacation, so comfort and timeliness (he is on vacation, he may have requested time off from his employer, etc.....get to HNL and bang the fiance ? Or spend time buying Cinnabons at an interim stop while refuel occurs ?) are important.

1. What is the "service" to Hawaii that SWA will offer compared to UAL? At this time, you can't even buy food on a SWA flight.

2. There is not $150 in pricing power for SWA to undercut the market to Hawaii that much. HNL is not some protected fortress hub with outrageous airfares. Yes the fares can get up to the $500 during high season for coach, but during nonpeak they often drop down to the high $200's, really not much coin for what you get in the way of transportation.

LUV

 

[satpak77]

1. What is the "service" to Hawaii that SWA will offer compared to UAL? At this time, you can't even buy food on a SWA flight.

2. There is not $150 in pricing power for SWA to undercut the market to Hawaii that much. HNL is not some protected fortress hub with outrageous airfares. Yes the fares can get up to the $500 during high season for coach, but during nonpeak they often drop down to the high $200's, really not much coin for what you get in the way of transportation.

LUV

Good questions, ones that I don't have the real answers to. However,

#1 - the route has not started yet so nobody knows what will be offered (if anything). However "experience" as in smiling FA's and on-time performance is better than galley grannies and late airplanes. All things being equal, the customer will go with the better experience.

#2 - I suppose it will be ultimately the customer's choice, and whether he wants a stop or non-stop. The "we might stop" due to headwinds probably won't fly either, not sure the range on the -800 but this may affect the discussed PHX / DEN market. The customer wants reliability also.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I was referring to Non Stop, but how would SWA do a "quick SWA turn" before an ETOPS flight? Sounds like a recipe for a violation to me.

Agreed.

There have been months when more than 50% of the time AK has had to bump bags or bags and Pax's. Winter more than summer obviously.

I'd be interested to know where you got this information.

 

[IAHERJ]

Good questions, ones that I don't have the real answers to. However,

#1 - the route has not started yet so nobody knows what will be offered (if anything). However "experience" as in smiling FA's and on-time performance is better than galley grannies and late airplanes. All things being equal, the customer will go with the better experience.

#2 - I suppose it will be ultimately the customer's choice, and whether he wants a stop or non-stop. The "we might stop" due to headwinds probably won't fly either, not sure the range on the -800 but this may affect the discussed PHX / DEN market. The customer wants reliability also.

The range of the -800 will not allow a DEN-HNL non-stop, even if the aircraft weighs less due to having lighter coach seats and only one "galley".

 

[Ex737Driver]

The range of the -800 will not allow a DEN-HNL non-stop, even if the aircraft weighs less due to having lighter coach seats and only one "galley".

Having done LAX-HNL and SNA-HNL, there ain't no way your gonna do DEN-HNL with a 737. We put 160 on a CAL 737-800 from LAX-HNL. How many will SWA put on their -800? Not seeing PHX-HNL as a possibility either.