SWA and 737 type-rating -- Federal investigation?

[ultrarunner]

I don't disagree with what you say.......However, I think you failed to see or appreciate my point. My point is: perhaps SWA should think more on a moral or ethical scale when considering their "MINIMUM standards".

Not everyone has a rich Mommy and Daddy such as yourself. And some of us have families to support.

Opps..didn't mean to say "dude". But it is funny how that corresponds to today's 'aviation wonder children,' of which I am not.

Now, back on topic. I see your point and can appreciate it from your point of view. If it were MY goal to work at SWA, and I couldn't afford the entry to the game, I'd be pretty bummed out. It's a gamble, no doubt about it, and not a gamble everyone can make. As they say, you only bet what you can afford to loose....

But to reduce a corporations decision on a 'technical qualification' to a moral or ethical issue, is so out of touch as to be unbelievable!

And it's that attitude that you carried into the interview that made the difference. NOT the pressure, IMHO. Heck, you already spent the money! So, in the end, you gambled and lost...we've all gambled man....

I'd let it go....

No disrespect intended.

--Ultra

 

[JetDude]

Great come back......Your ideas to rebut my statements, remind me of your IQ.

You obviously came from the military and unlike myself became institutionalized, I fought hard to keep my individuality whilst in the Military. Lets see straight from Government pay to SWA yea you have a real clue how the rest of us see the world. Now lets see if you can say something smart and disagree with me in an adult and mature way. Or are you going to call me a 4 year old again?

You have no idea what you're talking about and once again made my previous point. I too have a family, used my own funds, on my own time, and made myself competitive based on a thoroughly explained prerequisite. I even did it when NO ONE was hiring, but saw the future potential whan SWA began interviewing again. No moral/ethical crying...I took the chance with no guarantees. I'm done with you on this.

 

[Deadalus]

I Don't think there is any validity to that.

However, I do think SWA needs to think whether or not pressuring someone into spending $8-9k plus expenses, just to get an interview is a good idea. The pressure is significant especially for the Regional crowd. Imagine your company is in Bankruptcy you have been displaced twice furloughed once and looking at another furlough and the only way you can get even an interview is to get the Type. That is some massive pressure going into the interview. Thats what happened to me and I let the pressure get to me; hence poor performance in interview. Out of the 12 I interviewed with 3 got the job and the ones that did were NOT faced with the pressures I and others had. Coincidence.... I think not.

If you're a company and you can get away with having people pay for their training, you're going to keep doing it. They're not looking for great pilots they're looking for great bend over artists. There will always be people out there that think flying is sooooo great they will justify buying the type. It's why the industry is so screwed, there will always be a surplus of air whores. You can buy the multi-time, buy the turbine time, buy the type, but you just can't buy integrity.

 

[waveflyer]

Max- one of the reasons i value what i do so much- is b/c it was such a huge perceived financial risk.
That being said- this profession teaches us so much about ourselves. How to relax and perform under pressure is one of them. Like you, i found much more pressure came from myself, b/c it represented a better life, than i ever found from the physical and mental act of flying an a/c. Which really just tells me that i had a poor persons mindset. But what's true? Fact is, balling up an a/p and dying should have provided much more pressure than money- but it didn't. The real truth: if you're talented enough to fly an a/c- you are talented enough to earn your way in any number of ways- and you ought to relax & be secure in your own abilities.
Let all the challenges of flying drive home the saying:

"Pray not for a lighter load, but for stronger shoulders."

It's no airline's fault if you don't rise to the occasion under the weight of your own pressure. (But i understand it.) Keep applying- keep working on yourself- you won't fail the next interview or the next "pressure" situation in life.

praise laaawwwrd.. sermon's over

 

[Bob_Sacamano]

Papa,

I'm sorry you didn't get hired. Did you do any interview prep, or did you just try and impress the interviewers with your conspiracy theories?

Southwest doesn't care where you get your type rating. And for the illiterate or just stupid in the group who think that buying the rating is PFT, here it is one more time:

Paying your prospective airline for the job is PFT. Getting a type rating at a private company is investing in your future, just like getting a college degree, or paying for your commercial/ ATP.

You guys that got turned down really need to give it a rest. Southwest probably read your (barely) hidden bad attitudes.

 

[Publishers]

First of all, why would any company that can find sufficient pilots with types and experience not prefer to hire them.
Second, SWA used to have the decency to interview you without the type and tell you whether you would make it in but you had to get the type before you started. There was a second group that had the type and experience.
Sounds reasonable.
The only time there is any question at all about pay for training ethics is when people are being trained on revenue producing trips and you only got the job as you were willing to pay. Training contracts are designed for the company providing the training to get the benefit of that training.
With the current cost of jet training being what it is, we can look for more contractural agreements before training of some kinds.

 

[MILPILOT17]

First of all, why would any company that can find sufficient pilots with types and experience not prefer to hire them.
Second, SWA used to have the decency to interview you without the type and tell you whether you would make it in but you had to get the type before you started. There was a second group that had the type and experience.
Sounds reasonable.
The only time there is any question at all about pay for training ethics is when people are being trained on revenue producing trips and you only got the job as you were willing to pay. Training contracts are designed for the company providing the training to get the benefit of that training.
With the current cost of jet training being what it is, we can look for more contractural agreements before training of some kinds.

As of Aug 07 (point at which they stopped interviewing) SWA was interviewing without a type. I know people w/o the type were hired because I was one of them. I suspect they may do the same thing in the future.

 

[J.Otto]

Requiring a type rating sounds like a good business model to me. Call it what you want, but look at it from their business perspective. Seems like there is no shortage of folks willing to foot that bill. If it goes against your own constitution, then steer clear of SWA.

Other than that, they aren't doing anything illegal. Think of it this way, a company that makes their pilots pay for outside training helps their bottom line and your job security too. Clearly, if you bothered with obtaining the type and getting hired, you would be blessed as SWA isn't nearly in the trouble almost every other airline is in right now.

 

[waveflyer]

does the type help at all w/ training=- i've got more than a few friends that did their type in less than a week= then waited 2-3 years before getting on.

My understanding of the type is that they want that entreprenurial spirit= they want people who are invested in the company. They invest a lot in their employees and they don't want to waste time w/ those who aren't willing to return the sentiment. Is this a more accurate reason for it?

 

[contrail67]

does the type help at all w/ training=- i've got more than a few friends that did their type in less than a week= then waited 2-3 years before getting on.

My understanding of the type is that they want that entreprenurial spirit= they want people who are invested in the company. They invest a lot in their employees and they don't want to waste time w/ those who aren't willing to return the sentiment. Is this a more accurate reason for it?

They do it to save on training expenses....Believe me, they could issue you the type on your checkride...other legacy carriers do....but they don't. As long as they have folks that will pay then there is no need to change it.