SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[JumpJetter]

so swa survived ONLY because of fuel hedging....huh? who knew?

 

[PapaWoody]

Just curious Gup, what made you buy the type and go to WN before they "made real money"?

Gup already answered, but I'll answer for myself. In two words, job security. I was hired pre-911 when WN was making less than the legacies. When I got the call that I was hired, I stopped filling out the United app, cancelled my upcoming Northwest interview, but held on to my American interview til after I started class at Southwest. The second day of class, I called American and cancelled my interview in 2 weeks, handed my cell phone to a classmate, who proceeded to do the same.

Now you might think I was lucky because of 911, and I'll admit luck does play a part in anyone's airline career, but the ravaging of the industry and the downward slide that all the other airlines experienced was on the way, with or without the 911 attacks. That's just the cyclical nature of the industry, and more specifically the industry as it refers to the way the legacies run their business plans (hire big when times are good, furlough big when times are bad). The history of Southwest, imo, showed that they had always planned in the good times to be ready for the bad times. And in my potential 27 yr. career, I was willing to make a little less to not have to worry about selling used cars periodically on furlough. Turns out with our 2002 extension I got my cake and got to eat it too. No, I don't get to go to Paris on the job (at least not yet), but considering over the last ten years I've probably made 500k-1m more than my contemporaries at Delta/NW/AA/UAL etc, I can afford to take my family to Paris anytime I want.

I'm not trying to brag about my career; again, all airline success stories involve luck and timing. But I am letting the troll known as OYS that, in actuality, us poor Texas 2-step Southwest guys are the ones that are "duh, winning". Obviously, a fact that he knows and it galls him into spewing bitter drivel in a constant manner on this forum. Please keep it up, buddy, green really looks good on you.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[ASADFW7]

Nice post papawoody

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest Captains were leaving for UAL before 9-11. I had a couple in my newhire class at UAL in 2000.

If true, which I doubt...... BIG MISTAKE!

 

[GuppyWN]

If true, which I doubt...... BIG MISTAKE!

It's true. You could make shuttle captain at UAL in 18 months before the fall. Or bunkie in a 777 in under a year.

Gup

 

[elcid]

Airtran is a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest. Actually, Guadalupe Holdings is, to be technically correct. As such it can have it's own fees, 1st class, paint jobs, seniority lists, etc. indefinitely. Just like other airlines out there that are wholly owned subsidiaries of larger holding companies. I wouldn't read too much into what that means about SWA's ability or inability to make money, whether or not they have buyers remorse, etc. Nothing to see here.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Hundreds of people left majors and the military for UPS between 2003-2008 BECAUSE of the "stability and job security." Very similar to the same group leaving for swa up to 2000. Yes, dude-swa's "job security" only came to fruition because of Scott Topping and Gary Kelly's decision to fuel hedge. Something which was completely unknown to those who "were looking for job stability."
This is what the arbitrator will be looking at when deciding the sli. "How much did you really know about the future of the airline and its stability, especially when AAI was looking at 4 year upgrades mid-2000s??"

I wasn't talking to you but I guess I'll reply to your speculation on what the arbitrators might look at. They might look a the fact that while your upgrade then was estimated at four years and ours was five, your upgrade put you financially equal to about a 4 year SWA FO, and our upgrade put us over 50% above your most senior captain. Something else that might be considered is the fact that SWA is a place where pilots have aspired to work, even pre 911 with sub-standard rates. There is not one pilot on the AAI list who is there because that is where they always wanted to work. Couple that with the fact that SWA had hundreds of apps on file from AAI pilots in the hiring years prior to the transaction, and I feel pretty good about the picture that might be painted.

That being said, a negotiated solution is best for all.

 

[RLAblows]

I wasn't talking to you but I guess I'll reply to your speculation on what the arbitrators might look at. They might look a the fact that while your upgrade then was estimated at four years and ours was five, your upgrade put you financially equal to about a 4 year SWA FO, and our upgrade put us over 50% above your most senior captain. Something else that might be considered is the fact that SWA is a place where pilots have aspired to work, even pre 911 with sub-standard rates. There is not one pilot on the AAI list who is there because that is where they always wanted to work. Couple that with the fact that SWA had hundreds of apps on file from AAI pilots in the hiring years prior to the transaction, and I feel pretty good about the picture that might be painted.

That being said, a negotiated solution is best for all.

Very true Hose, but how many upgrades was SWA putting through prior to the Sept 27 announcement? Also, how many pilots did you hire between 2009 and the September announcement? AirTran was doing both, and now we are short in some areas. Because of the announcement we ceased upgrades and hiring. Although, I believe there has been some 717 CA upgrades run recently, but we are still short.

 

[Ty Webb]

blah, blah, blah . . . .

Dude, give it a rest already. For every argument you make, there is a counter-argument that is equally cogent. After 60 pages, it has all been said.

 

[madjack]

Oh boy, talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth...many Trannys on this forum were begging to be bought and relieved of their management and contract, but now that it has happened are shopping for seniority, while enjoying a windfall in QOL/benefits and job security...amazing