SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[PapaWoody]

Even if it goes relative how does any SWA pilot lose seniority? They don't lose money, they don't lose bidding power, vacation slots, bases, or anything else. You say its not a pilot's seat but the company's who he flies for. Now we all fly for the same company just have different bargaining agents. No SWA guy will lose anything. Even if it goes relative they have not lost any seniority. 99.9% of AAI guys meet and exceed SWA's mins . GK and the shareholders decided they wanted this deal and they made it happen. You can say AAI guys are lesser pilots and lesser people all day long but that doesn't make it so. You have earned your job and we have earned ours. Get over yourself. You are no better than the other thousands of pilots out there.

27, you generally have reasonable posts, and I don't doubt that this one was intended to be the same, so my rebuttal is not intended to be combative. However, to say that no SWA guy will lose anything if this were to go relative is incorrect. Seniority determines a lot of things, including vacation, bidding for premium time, etc. So if this were to go relative, every SWA guy would lose money because of the inherent slowing of their movement up the seniority list that would occur due to growth and retirements (the majority of the retirements being on the SWA side for the next 20 years). Not sure the amount of money to be lost, but considering I upgraded before age 60 changed and the stagnation caused by that is costing me approx. $30k a year, the losses would be substantial, especially for the junior guys. Given this, it would hardly be fair for a pilot who has been at AirTran for less time than we've been at SWA to not only get an average $1.5 million bump in his career earnings and get seniority that their longevity does not support, while the SWA guys and gals would lose money over the course of their career. Fair and equitable cuts both ways.

Respectfully,
PapaWoody

 

[SWA/FO]

but since you are an FO

I'll be a Captain by the time the ATL boyz are attached to the list. I don't need tranny to upgrade.

 

[27 driver]

27, you generally have reasonable posts, and I don't doubt that this one was intended to be the same, so my rebuttal is not intended to be combative. However, to say that no SWA guy will lose anything if this were to go relative is incorrect. Seniority determines a lot of things, including vacation, bidding for premium time, etc. So if this were to go relative, every SWA guy would lose money because of the inherent slowing of their movement up the seniority list that would occur due to growth and retirements (the majority of the retirements being on the SWA side for the next 20 years). Not sure the amount of money to be lost, but considering I upgraded before age 60 changed and the stagnation caused by that is costing me approx. $30k a year, the losses would be substantial, especially for the junior guys. Given this, it would hardly be fair for a pilot who has been at AirTran for less time than we've been at SWA to not only get an average $1.5 million bump in his career earnings and get seniority that their longevity does not support, while the SWA guys and gals would lose money over the course of their career. Fair and equitable cuts both ways.

Respectfully,
PapaWoody

PapaWoody,
My post was basically alcohol driven but the message remains the same. I just get sick of people saying we are lesser people because we don't work for SWA. You guys have a great deal there and there is no arguing that fact. I guess my point is that we aren't lesser people or pilots. I just didn't express it properly. I have no idea how this is going to work out and hope all will be happy in the end. I am just a passenger on this bus. I wish nothing but the best for all of us. I am sorry if I offended anyone. It wasn't my intention. Good luck to us all and God speed.

Oh ya...Lets gitr done and kick some ass.

 

[Kharma Police]

I'll be a Captain by the time the ATL boyz are attached to the list. I don't need tranny to upgrade.

I hope so! You've been saying that since September, what are you waiting for?

 

[General Lee]

Even if it goes relative how does any SWA pilot lose seniority? They don't lose money, they don't lose bidding power, vacation slots, bases, or anything else. You say its not a pilot's seat but the company's who he flies for. Now we all fly for the same company just have different bargaining agents. No SWA guy will lose anything. Even if it goes relative they have not lost any seniority. 99.9% of AAI guys meet and exceed SWA's mins . GK and the shareholders decided they wanted this deal and they made it happen. You can say AAI guys are lesser pilots and lesser people all day long but that doesn't make it so. You have earned your job and we have earned ours. Get over yourself. You are no better than the other thousands of pilots out there.

That is correct, but they do want your Captain slots. They know stagnation may set in because they only have 150 scheduled retirements per year for the next 10 or more years, and that is too slow. In recent past they were upgrading fast, until their senior guys wanted to stay until age 80. (they only got age 65) Watch what you do, and read the fine print.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

27 the hard part for many is the multiple interviews and years to get on with SWA. It is unique within the industry. It isn't for everyone but it is enviable.

 

[General Lee]

They lose money by delays in upgrade, week ends off etc. As you say, they didn't choose Swa but how did they earn it. So I guess a new hire hired after will go in front of everyone if they were a capt previously, they earned it right?

Earned it? They didn't decide to merge, GK did. It may turn out well financially for them, but they didn't do the signing on the bottomline. And how would a newhire go ahead of any Captain? Come on now.

And just because Southwest is doing well today, doesn't mean it couldn't falter in the future. Maybe Airtran could have been the next powerhouse. You don't really know. And do you have to EARN SOUTHWEST? That sounds a bit cocky. Get over it. This is a merger, and most Airtran Captains will probably be merged in with other Southwest Captains (maybe not at the top of the list, but within the Captain ranks somewhere), and there will be Southwest and Airtran FOs both at the bottom. Arbitration will make it fair. Also, anyone hired after the merger announcement will be stapled on the bottom---as per every other arbitration result.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

27 the hard part for many is the multiple interviews and years to get on with SWA. It is unique within the industry. It isn't for everyone but it is enviable.

Arbitrators will laugh if you say that in testimony. Are you saying sons or daughters have NEVER been hired over MORE qualified C-5A drivers with 737 types also? Come on, get over it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ASADFW7]

Deleted

 

[Empennage]

GL. What merger?