SWA/Airtran pilot integration thoughts, what will the new list look like?

[Ty Webb]

Let give that to them and then let the SLI be based upon your pay rate. That way everyone is happy. The Southwest Pilots got what they wanted, AirTran Pilots got to accomplish what they wanted.

Sorry, but that is a textbook example of a windfall. You guys who keep pushing these completely unrealistic scenarios are going to be the most unhappy when the SLI comes out, IMHO.

Let's look at just plain ol' numbers:

A) If you are pilot #3 out of 10, it doesn't matter if you become #30 out of 100, or #300/1000 or 3,000/10,000 you still have the same QOL and Pay you had before.

B) It also doesn't affect your Pay or QOL when those integrated Pilots were hired at their former carriers, what matters is the appropriate number of airplanes (and lines) came with them into the mix.

If you pulled hundreds of AirTran Captains out of the seat they've held for years, and gave those seats to SWA FO's it would be a huge windfall to those SWA FO's at the expense of those AirTran Captains . . . . This is the exact type of thing Arbitrators are trying to avoid.

So, break out your W-2 and fantasize all you want, but in the end, I thinnk it is you who is going to be the most disappointed and angry, because of your unrealistic expectations.

 

[737tanker]

A) If you are pilot #3 out of 10, it doesn't matter if you become #30 out of 100, or #300/1000 or 3,000/10,000 you still have the same QOL and Pay you had before.

Only if you keep your old pay scale. If you go from #3 out of 10 to #300 out of 1000 and get a large pay increase and a much better QOL then you are the beneficiary of a windfall.

 

[Ty Webb]

Only if you keep your old pay scale. If you go from #3 out of 10 to #300 out of 1000 and get a large pay increase and a much better QOL then you are the beneficiary of a windfall.

If my hourly pay rate changes to match your scale, it doesn't change anything for you ... You are still 300/1000.

Think about this- what if AirTran had bought SWA, and you had to come down to our pay scales, would we also kick you out of your seat?

Thank God that's not the way it went down!

 

[Formula 1]

Sorry, but that is a textbook example of a windfall. You guys who keep pushing these completely unrealistic scenarios are going to be the most unhappy when the SLI comes out, IMHO.

So you admit that you would be getting a windfall for your group.

Again what do you bring to the table that is fair and equitable for the Southwest Pilot Group?

The amazing 717? If that is so great, why did they stop building them?

50 orders for 737-700s? We have 84 confirm orders that will be converted to -800s this December and another 130 options.

Tunica, Ms.? Well we have Lubbock! Top that!

What do you bring?

 

[XR650R]

The question wasn't whether you'd want the entire financial side of the house, but rather what specific elements of our contract you'd want to keep.

I'd take the 10.5% of the Southwest hourly rate in a B-fund if we could keep it structured that way and let me contribute my max to the 401(k) without a match. Better tax position, by far.

Good point. I hope the SWAPA people are able to maybe start a B-fund in addition to the 401(k) match. I just don't know if the contributions (hypothetically) would be a wash because of ERISA limits. I would be nice to have BOTH a match and a B-fund. I think that would placate a bunch of people.

 

[XR650R]

We're not angry. We're tired of being hung out to dry. Don't get me wrong, I count myself very blessed to be at SWA. But I also paid my dues, and paid them dearly, to get where I am. We are more than a bit jaded by the way our union has favored the most senior at our company, most noticably in the way they fought tooth and nail for the retirement age change, with nary a thought for how it would affect the FOs and junior Captains. It wasn't until the very next union rag after the December 2007 rule change that we saw an article reminding the Captains that this change would be detrimental to the junior folk, and to please keep them in mind when discussing these things. Gosh, thanks SWAPA!

This acquisition is just the latest way that FOs at SWA have been railroaded.

Unfortunately, one never never knows exactly how much is enough in the "dues paying" category. At least in this business.

 

[waveflyer]

Skeet skeet skeet

Ahhhh- I think I just mentally masturbated...

 

[Clyde Frog]

If you go from #3 out of 10 to #300 out of 1000 and get a large pay increase and a much better QOL then you are the beneficiary of a windfall.

Unless you can guarantee SWA pay rates will continue, your argument is moot.

SLI will be decided by an arbitrator, and recent decisions favor relative seniority for exactly that reason.

 

[Ty Webb]

So you admit that you would be getting a windfall for your group.

Getting SWA's pay rates would be nice, but it doesn't constitute a "windfall", at least not within the context of SLI.

There's no point in arguing this with you. I suggest you read some of the previous SLI list arbitrations so that you can understand what constitutes a "windfall" in this context.

 

[waveflyer]

Ty- since you like to masturbate - let me throw a question out-
How is money....valueless in your world?