SWA - AAI question

[dicko]

Oops .... :erm:

 

[johnsonrod]

I suspect IF we go to arbitration it will be because the Airtran pilots vote for it. Therefore it's really up to you guys to figure out what it's worth to get the big bucks and other HUGE contractual gains sooner vs. later. Gup

Seniority is everything in this business. I think they'll go for the arbitration, and then the big pay check.

 

[Slug]

Then he said his MEC recently sent an update to the AAI pilots saying they are holding the SLI process up until SWA agrees to gives them assurances on transition issues. This really confuses me because I am sure the transition talks are between SWA and SWAPA. He explained that more and more AAI pilots are concerned that this overly aggressive path will only jeopardize their future as SWA pilots.

This was in an email from our VP today that kinda backs up the quote above.


"The SWAPA NC and the AirTran Merger Committee seem to agree on the process of negotiating the SLI, but their Transition Team expressed a desire to address some of their transitional issues with AirTran/Southwest Airlines prior to our teams meeting again."


Sorry, didn't read page 2

 

[Bill Nelson]

I think they'll go for the arbitration, and then the big pay check.

Going for something you may not deserve may end up in the AAI guys never seeing the big pay check. Check your six.

 

[dicko]

The AirTran MC are a bunch of solid industry veterans. I won't speak for the Transition team. With one exception ...... No, it's not me.


Here you go;


"Members of the ATN MEC Merger Committee (MC) and Transition Team met again in Dallas on January 25-26 with members of the SWAPA Negotiations, Merger & Acquisition Committee. The purpose of the meetings was to close three remaining gaps in Process Agreement language. Substantial progress was made on these issues.

Disagreement remains on the critical issue of completing an operational merger within a specified time. As such, both sides agreed to defer further discussion. In the meantime, we will work instead to arrange a meeting between SWAPA, ALPA, and the managements of AirTran and Southwest, with the goal of concluding work on a Process Agreement; reaching a common understanding of the merger process; and discussing Transition Agreements to protect the interests of AirTran and Southwest pilots during the period between the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and an operational merger of the two carriers. The MEC will have additional information on plans for those meetings, coming soon."

 

[BlueBlood]

Curious to this comment:

Disagreement remains on the critical issue of completing an operational merger within a specified time.

Does the Airtran union dudes have any say about the way SWA merges the two? Really, I wouldn't think that labor would be able to dictate operational decisions.

Good luck in this deal to all.

 

[dicko]

Curious to this comment:



Does the Airtran union dudes have any say about the way SWA merges the two?

Yes.

Love your curiosity. Keep at it.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Does the Airtran union dudes have any say about the way SWA merges the two?

Interesting.

 

[scoreboardII]

No, good luck with that.

 

[FDJ2]

With ALPA involved, this could take awhile. Incredible.

And yet the DAL/NWA merger (ALPA), with a significantly more complex integration, from labors perspective, was essentially wrapped up less than 1 year after the date the merger was announced.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Federal law. Believe it or not SWA has to comply with it, including the RLA.

The major disconnect here seems to be that many SWA pilots believe they are in the drivers seats in this integration. They're not. They are equal players in it with the AAI pilots. Soon you will be one happy family. Make the best of it.

Federal Law? Yeah well... its not as if the cops are going to show up and arrest Gary Kelly when the two operations are not "prepared" to be merged after 18, 24, 36... months. You guys are gonna have to pool some cash and sue the hand that will be feeding your new found wealth.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Curious to this comment:



Does the Airtran union dudes have any say about the way SWA merges the two? Really, I wouldn't think that labor would be able to dictate operational decisions.

Good luck in this deal to all.

What is due from SWA to the SWAPA pilots in order to complete this deal as SWA desires is a matter that is strictly between current SWAPA pilots and SWA. I find it odd that the AAI NC expects to be included in any transition negotiations with SWA.

 

[FDJ2]

What is due from SWA to the SWAPA pilots in order to complete this deal as SWA desires is a matter that is strictly between current SWAPA pilots and SWA. I find it odd that the AAI NC expects to be included in any transition negotiations with SWA.

After reading this and your previous statement, I find it odd that you believe that the AAI pilots don't have a legally enforceable contract that requires that they be included.

Your ignorance is amazing. I'm surprised that SWAPA hasn't performed the most rudimentary communication needed to keep SWA pilots informed on the integration process.

 

[Bill Nelson]

I find it odd that you believe that the AAI pilots don't have a legally enforceable contract that requires that they be included.

I find it odd that you think your weak language trumps the Swapa contract or that it can force SWA to merge in a way that you direct. Amazing is not a strong enough word.

 

[Lear70]

That update is a little troubling. I'm not HIGHLY concerned, as if things were bad it would have been a much more direct email, but there's some things to read between the lines on in there.

Disagreement remains on the critical issue of completing an operational merger within a specified time.

They're sending us a signal. Unfortunately, our pilots are so used to ducking their heads and not asking questions that most of our pilots probably missed it.

What it says is that our Merger Committee tried to get SWAPA to agree to operationally merge the two pilot groups within a specific amount of time. Whether it's 18 months, 24 months, 36 months, we just wanted a commitment to do that rather than allow a Muse Air scenario possibility and a protracted court battle over our 18 month language.

SWAPA evidently wasn't interested in agreeing to that and WE won't sign it without it. What that means is, if we can't get a Process Agreement by DOCC, it goes straight to Arbitration, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, just trigger A/M and send it straight to an Arbitrator, which happens within 60-90 days of DOCC; it's not a lengthy process.

I don't think anyone WANTS that at this point, but ALPA isn't going to sign the process agreement without this basic protection that MUST be had, and if we can't get it, then we'll do what we have to do. It's just that simple.

Again, if that's NOT the intent, there's no harm in putting that provision in. However, if the intent is to try to pull a Muse Air or even attempt to use it as a hammer to try to get a better SLI, then it explains why SWAPA won't agree to it. Maybe it's a temporary tactic, maybe it's a bluff to try to get us to leave it out, I don't know what SWAPA has in mind by not wanting to put it in, but I *HIGHLY* doubt our MEC will sign it until it's in there.

As such, both sides agreed to defer further discussion. In the meantime, we will work instead to arrange a meeting between SWAPA, ALPA, and the managements of AirTran and Southwest, with the goal of concluding work on a Process Agreement; reaching a common understanding of the merger process; and discussing Transition Agreements to protect the interests of AirTran and Southwest pilots during the period between the Date of Corporate Closing (DOCC) and an operational merger of the two carriers. The MEC will have additional information on plans for those meetings, coming soon."

This one is easier to read: there's 3 issues they'll be working on. First, they will be attempting to engage AAI management and SWA management on this remaining sticky issue of putting a timeline for operational integration into the Process Agreement. If they can get that done, we move forward.

The Second one I'm not 100% sure of, obviously there's something going on additionally that they're not sharing. I'm sure we'll hear about it eventually.

The 3rd one is why we need to work TOGETHER on a Transition Agreement. Yes, this would typically be done between just SWAPA and SWA, *HOWEVER*, there are a lot of protections in our contract that have to be considered in what SWAPA and SWA try to do during the integration process.

What is due from SWA to the SWAPA pilots in order to complete this deal as SWA desires is a matter that is strictly between current SWAPA pilots and SWA. I find it odd that the AAI NC expects to be included in any transition negotiations with SWA.

Make no mistake, ALL provisions of our contract WILL remain in place until we are on the SWAPA seniority list and represented by SWAPA. That's Federal Law, and SWA management acknowledged their requirement to do so when we signed our T.A. The main one is that Southwest can't shuffle airplanes around where it would cause downgrades and furloughs on our side of the list. There's more of them but it only makes good sense to have our contract people there when SWAPA and SWA hammer out the Transition Agreement so they don't work something out that later can't be done because of our contract.

And there's always recourse, including taking a case straight to Federal Court if it's a Major Dispute (shuffling aircraft from our Cert to SWA Cert and causing downgrades and furloughs). Would result in an immediate injunction then the court process to hear it.

While I don't believe this is what anyone WANTS, people would be naive to think AAI ALPA would just sit back and let something like that happen. We'll protect our interests, just as SWA will protect theirs. My hope is that we can hammer all this out in the coming month before DOCC is right on top of us.

Still "cautiously optimistic" and will relax a lot more when the Process Agreement with the requirement to operationally integrate is done.

 

[redflyer65]

And yet the DAL/NWA merger (ALPA), with a significantly more complex integration, from labors perspective, was essentially wrapped up less than 1 year after the date the merger was announced.

Good try at trying to throw up the DL/NW merger. They were more equals than anything like what we are looking at here, and you know it. I could have merged them over the dining room table in one evening. Their pay and QOL issues were so close together, it wasn't difficult...

ALPA's problem (preceived by Herndon), is they are locked out of the transition agreement and are jumping up and down to get a seat at the table. Ain't gonna happen..

 

[ivauir]

After reading this and your previous statement, I find it odd that you believe that the AAI pilots don't have a legally enforceable contract that requires that they be included.

Are you saying that you have language in your contract requiring you to be part of SWAPA's transition agreement with SWA?

If so I don't think that is legally enforceable.

Your ignorance is amazing. I'm surprised that SWAPA hasn't performed the most rudimentary communication needed to keep SWA pilots informed on the integration process.

Why do you need to be so offensive and insulting? Do you really have language in your contract requiring you to be part of a side letter between SWAPA and SWA? Do you really believe that such language is enforceable?

 

[texman]

Good try at trying to throw up the DL/NW merger. They were more equals than anything like what we are looking at here, and you know it. I could have merged them over the dining room table in one evening. Their pay and QOL issues were so close together, it wasn't difficult...

ALPA's problem (preceived by Herndon), is they are locked out of the transition agreement and are jumping up and down to get a seat at the table. Ain't gonna happen..

This what I have been saying all along. It is all about the transition/transaction.

 

[FDJ2]

Good try at trying to throw up the DL/NW merger. They were more equals than anything like what we are looking at here, and you know it. I could have merged them over the dining room table in one evening. Their pay and QOL issues were so close together, it wasn't difficult...

ALPA's problem (preceived by Herndon), is they are locked out of the transition agreement and are jumping up and down to get a seat at the table. Ain't gonna happen..

I have to laugh.:laugh:

If you think the AAI pilots are seniority fodder for you, you are going to be very disappointed in the final result.

This is one of the easiest integrations in recent years. 2 LCCs with similar gauge aircraft flying similar routes. No major issues here.

Relative seniority or category/status with minor modifications for longevity.

Sorry, you wont get a seniority windfall for SWA at the expense of the AAI pilots.

The AAI contract will be enforced. You'll either negotiate a seniority list with AAI, or you'll be handed one by an arbitrator. It wont take as long as you think.

 

[S3sundowner]

deleted

 

[FDJ2]

Why do you need to be so offensive and insulting? Do you really have language in your contract requiring you to be part of a side letter between SWAPA and SWA? Do you really believe that such language is enforceable?

I'm not an AAI pilot, just a nuetral observer and yes the AAI contract language is binding and enforceable on SWA.

D. Successorship
1. This Agreement shall be binding on any Successor or Assign of the Company, unless or until changed in accordance with the provisions of the Railway Labor Act, as
amended. For the purposes of the Agreement, a Successor or Assign shall be defined as an entity that acquires all or substantially all of the assets or equity of the Company.

2. The Company shall require that the Successor or Assign shall, as a condition of and prior to the closing of a transaction as described in Paragraph 0.1., above, commit in writing to adhere to the provisions of this Agreement until changed pursuant to the Railway Labor Act.

 

[ivauir]

FD12,

Nothing in the language you posted includes you in the process of a sideletter between SWA and SWAPA. It is weird over the top and very aggressive to even attempt it.

 

[FDJ2]

SWA are the acquiring company. For that reason, and with the USAir/Cactus debacle being alive and not so well, I find it very hard to believe that SWA jumped into this two feet first without looking at every possible scenario; that would be a first. I'll bet the aai pilots are a nervous bunch right now, and for good reason. SWA are coming in to buy your company, and your negotiators are playing hardball. This is fairy tale stuff for you guys and you're going to start laying down the law? I know what I'd like swa to do.....

SWA and SWAPA clearly demonstarated to the entire industry their lack of understanding of acquisitions/mergers during the Frontier debacle.

Maybe they've learned their lesson. I don't know, we'll see, but the idea that the AAI pilots have no rights, because SWA is larger, the acquirer or any other self serving reason that has zero basis in fact or law is laughable. Absent a negotiated agreement, both the AAI pilot and SWA pilot merger committees will present their arguments as equals to an arbitrator. Sorry, but SWAPA won't be in the drivers seat at that point.

 

[ivauir]

This is one of the easiest integrations in recent years. 2 LCCs with similar gauge aircraft flying similar routes. No major issues here.

Relative seniority or category/status with minor modifications for longevity.

GMAFB,

You can't pose as an "interested neutral" and then post such one sided drivel. You completely ignore that vast differences in career expectaions between the two pilot groups.

Grow up and stop trying to shape expectations. Let the teams work it out and enjoy your windfall.

 

[ivauir]

SWA and SWAPA clearly demonstarated to the entire industry their lack of understanding of acquisitions/mergers during the Frontier debacle.

No.

FAPA demonstrated that they do not understand BATNA. Hopefully your group is wiser.

 

[FDJ2]

FD12,

Nothing in the language you posted includes you in the process of a sideletter between SWA and SWAPA. It is weird over the top and very aggressive to even attempt it.

Just for the record, I'm not an AAI pilot. The point I was making is that whatever protections are in the AAI contract will be honored. It's also important to note that Bond/McCaskill will also be honored and absent a negotiated list, their will be an arbitrated award which will be binding.

JMHO, but SWA is not attempting to acquire AAI in order to operate them as a separate entity, also, it wouldn't be good for the SWA pilots if they were.

 

[FDJ2]

GMAFB,

You can't pose as an "interested neutral" and then post such one sided drivel. You completely ignore that vast differences in career expectaions between the two pilot groups.

Grow up and stop trying to shape expectations. Let the teams work it out and enjoy your windfall.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

You are so blinded by your partisanship that you've lost your objectivity.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[FDJ2]

No.

FAPA demonstrated that they do not understand BATNA. Hopefully your group is wiser.

You're scared, I understand. You really shouldn't be. In the end your merger committee will be allowed to make their arguments, as will the AAI merger committee and ultimately, absent a mutually agreed upon SLI, an arbitrator will issue a fair award. It shouldn't take too long. This is fairly straight forward stuff.

 

[ivauir]

Whatever.

"Fair and equitable" is a two way street. That is hardly a partisan view. SWA pilots will be fine. We won't get anything like the windfall that the AAI pilots will get, but no ever said that life is fair.

 

[S3sundowner]

fd, you're right. swa pilots need not be scared. They bring too much to this acquisition and swa would be fools NOT to go to arbitration.