SWA - AAI question

[roughneck]

Originally Posted by FIREMAN
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...es/printer.gif View printer-friendly version<< BackAirTran Airways Completes Boeing 737-700 Financing Facility Agreement With NORD/LBCommitted Financing in Place for All 2011 Aircraft Deliveries- ORLANDO, Fla., Sept 15, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- AirTran Airways, a subsidiary of AirTran Holdings, Inc. (NYSE: AAI), today reported that it has signed a new financing arrangement with Norddeutsche Landesbank Girozentrale (NORD/LB), one of the largest state-owned banks in Germany, to provide permanent financing to the airline for Boeing 737-700 deliveries in 2011

They are orders not options.

These aircraft (2 to be exact) were granted final approval for financing just 2 weeks prior to the public announcement that SWA was buying AirTran. There is no doubt the bank knew that SWA was the guarantee behind the deal. All other AirTran orders or options were either pushed back to later years, again, or transferred to SWA.

The DOJ has yet to rule and the shareholders haven't voted. It is a far stretch to think this is a done deal. Do you really think AirTran would be giving away airplanes if they had a place to put them or money to get them? The reason the are willing to do it now, prior to DOJ approval, is because plan B if the SWA savior doesn't pan out is to shrink not grow. The business plan doesn't work anymore and they have no place to put new aircraft or money to get them.

AirTran had hit the wall and SWA was willing to buy them for 32 gates in Atlanta and a few more orders on the books. AirTran's future was and is bleak outside of a SWA white knight scenario.

 

[dicko]

These aircraft (2 to be exact) were granted final approval for financing just 2 weeks prior to the public announcement that SWA was buying AirTran. There is no doubt the bank knew that SWA was the guarantee behind the deal. All other AirTran orders or options were either pushed back to later years, again, or transferred to SWA.

The DOJ has yet to rule and the shareholders haven't voted. It is a far stretch to think this is a done deal. Do you really think AirTran would be giving away airplanes if they had a place to put them or money to get them? The reason the are willing to do it now, prior to DOJ approval, is because plan B if the SWA savior doesn't pan out is to shrink not grow. The business plan doesn't work anymore and they have no place to put new aircraft or money to get them.

AirTran had hit the wall and SWA was willing to buy them for 32 gates in Atlanta and a few more orders on the books. AirTran's future was and is bleak outside of a SWA white knight scenario.

Your lack of a balanced perspective will not serve you well.

 

[Ty Webb]

Your lack of a balanced perspective will not serve you well.

Are you referring to some of our "Flat Earth Society" members? :laugh:

 

[roughneck]

Just the facts Ma'am.

 

[roughneck]

So you guys think AirTran is giving away all of their future growth airframes on the HOPE that this deal goes through? The truth is they are giving away the airframes because they don't have the ability to get them or do anything with them.

SWA is the only option AirTran had.
AirTran is one of the options SWA had.
BIG difference.

 

[FIREMAN]

You really think the bank was told of the SWA-AAI talks? There was not a deal on the table at the time. I think the DOJ and SEC would like to see your evidence of that. AAI did not transfer orders to SWA they swapped delivery slots

 

[Ty Webb]

So you guys think AirTran is giving away all of their future growth airframes on the HOPE that this deal goes through? The truth is they are giving away the airframes because they don't have the ability to get them or do anything with them.

You think that giving up slots is the same as giving up options or orders?

I'm going to invoke Murphy's Rule here about arguing with a fool.

 

[ivauir]

Sad and predictable.

Confronted with facts Ty devolves into name calling.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Easy there .... We work for the same company. It's a shame you didn't take the time to think about it. Maybe you'd like to re-edit. Again.

I was pointing out to our angry future brothers that;

1. The deliveries will not benefit AirTran pilots. Our upgrades and hiring will stagnate due to this process.

2. The jets that they believe we can't afford are arriving for their benefit. Not ours. Unless you believe this silly 'work together for a stronger company' concept. Which I do.

Oops. I stand corrected. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming of pointless discussions about who is giving up what to whom in this deal.

 

[roughneck]

You think that giving up slots is the same as giving up options or orders?

Your orders are gone. Your options are gone. Your delivery slots for 2011 are gone. Welcome to reality.

 

[Ty Webb]

Sad and predictable.

Confronted with facts Ty devolves into name calling.

Show me some facts.

So far, all I've seen are delusional rants and wishful thinking.

 

[roughneck]

Show me some facts.

The facts are evident in our last quarter earnings report. Look at the aircraft orders that Gary talked about. The delivery schedule increased by the exact number or airframes that AirTran had on order. Where do you think they came from? Those are the facts Ma'am.

They wouldn't be giving away airframes if they had the money for them and if they had a plan to put them to work. AirTran has neither. You better hope the DOJ gives approval.

 

[kwick]

Since Airtran has the aircraft orders and the
Better growth potential, the senior AT f/o's
Need to have their upgrades protected.

Relative seniority does not protect the
AT senior f/o's, who have higher career
Expectations than their SW
Counterparts.

 

[ASADFW7]

Don't worry the senior AT f/0's will have company where ever they end up on the list. Singling out any one segment of either list is like squeezing a balloon.

Kwick that argument has a valid place, and it is important to hear what you are saying. It will be weighed through the whole process and each list will be placed according to the negotiations.

Most understand that being hired at SWA brings over a million dollar difference at all ages in expectations no matter where they are on the list? That is a basis point of fact for any career expectation of either group.

SWA pilot plus $1 000 000 career expectations, just reminding you to remember wherever it stands, the Airtran expectations will never be the same wherever they end up, it has just been added $1 000 000, with the exception of the elderly.

Cheers to your million, it is nice.

 

[ivauir]

Show me some facts.

Ty,

We've been down this road before, and everytime anyone posts factual information you respond with bogus and personal arguments. None the less, here is a little morsel for you:

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/stocknet/bonds.aspx?symbol=aai

http://quicktake.morningstar.com/stocknet/bonds.aspx?symbol=luv

FACT:

AAI has a 1.9 debt to equity ratio

FACT:

LUV has has a 0.6 debt to equity ratio

So far, all I've seen are delusional rants and wishful thinking.

Like kwick's post?

Be honest, knock off the flamebait.

You want our contract. That is easy to understand; it represents a career altering windfall. A fair and equitable ISL will recognize these facts and the added risk to Southwest pilots. Unfortunately a handful of FL pilots aren't interested in fair and equitable. Given the turn of last weeks events, I wonder if this hyper militant and unreasonable cadre is in control at ALPA.