SWA-AAI Going Rogue

[Cruncher]

... This SLI is all about seniority, not seat position.
Bye Bye---General Lee

I wholly agree. Have you read what some of the AAI guys write? "No seat loss."

But, some of the egos on this board are a bit over the top, and borderline elitist. You may have thought certain airline pilots were like that in the past, but a lot of your guys are that way NOW.

Bye Bye---General Lee

Again agree on all sides. We all have our 2%. All these guys do is piss everyone else off.

 

[Cruncher]

No dog in this fight, but longevity is not the same thing as seniority.

I think (at least I hope) everyone here knows the difference. My comment was to the guys saying they will not loose one Captain seat (which is akin to saying Relative "Seniority").

One of the poor things with conversing in forums, is sometimes intent is lost. Can't readily convey body language, ...

 

[SWA/FO]

And yes cpt at aai compared to fo at swa is a pay cut.

smokin some Atlanta crack again.

 

[BoilerUP]

I think (at least I hope) everyone here knows the difference. My comment was to the guys saying they will not loose one Captain seat (which is akin to saying Relative "Seniority").

One of the poor things with conversing in forums, is sometimes intent is lost. Can't readily convey body language, ...

Indeed...that and internet forums tends to bring the ****************************** out in people that they'd never expose in reality. But I digress...

Recognizing that seniority isn't the same as longevity, why then would it be untenable that a 6 year AirTran captain keeps his Captain position and an 11 year Southwest FO keeps his First Officer position?

Did the AirTran captain not "bring his seat" to the merger, as the SWA first officer brought his seat to the merger?

Seems to me, as an outside observer who got to listen to AAA guys bitch about the Nicholau decision on the jumpseat for 2 years, that there have been some SWA pilots claim AirTran brings nothing to this merger. However, its quite clear that AirTran pilots are bringing Captain positions with them to a merger - Captain positions that some SWA pilots apparently feel they are entitled to, and Captain positions that they otherwise would not have available for some time at Southwest's recent & projected rate of growth & attrition. Some SWA pilots rationalize it that position by talking about the massive contract improvement AirTran pilots would get even from their new TA to the existing SWA CBA (even comparing AT CA to SWA FO), and while that may be true, it doesn't change the fact that pilots with more longevity at Airline A attempting to take captains positions away from pilots with more seniority at Airline B is essentially a land grab - or, perhaps a more accurate way to describe it, seizure by imminent domain where market price is paid to those who had something they didn't want to relinquish forcibly taken from them.

Just throwing this out there for folks to think about: what would be the harm to current Southwest pilots in stapling AT captains the bottom of SWA's captain list, and stapling AT FOs to the bottom of SWA's FO list? With this, everybody would keep the position they brought to the merger, would keep their longevity for pay, and SWA FOs would get the captain positions created by all attrition & growth, with the most junior SWA FO having an opportunity to upgrade before the most senior AT FO.

Sure, with the above there would be "winners" and "losers" (like there are in any SLI)...but it preserves the seats of existing AirTran CAs, gives existing SWA FOs first crack at all future captain positions, and allows AirTran FOs a substantial raise in pay to compensate for their upgrade being below all existing SWA FOs.

So, both sides - how out to lunch am I?

 

[Bill Nelson]

Did the AirTran captain not "bring his seat" to the merger, as the SWA first officer brought his seat to the merger?

In all honesty I think this idea is the crux of all the angst. There is a widespread fundamental misunderstanding that seems to muddy the water in this deal. This is not a merger of equals. This is not a merger at all and is simply an aquistion for SWA.

 

[SWA/FO]

Gary Kelly in the MCO lounge a few weeks ago "Guys, guys, you have to remember we are the ones doing the buying".

 

[Ty Webb]

Bill, you are the one that doesn't get it, but you will. Who "bought" who doesn't matter, it is a seniority list merger.

 

[Bill Nelson]

it is a seniority list merger

We aren't merging lists. We will be adding you to our list after the acquisition if the time comes where that is a necessity.

 

[Ty Webb]

We aren't merging lists. We will be adding you to our list after the acquisition if the time comes where that is a necessity.

Ha, ha ... OK, Chief. Whatever gets you through the night, but you have a long hard road ahead of you, because you're about twenty years behind the times.

 

[Bill Nelson]

What happened 20 years ago?