SWA 4Q profit slip amid higher costs

[canyonblue]

I will put a SWA captain W2 against any other airline you pick prior to 2001.

You do not know what you a talking about. Just another SWA, hater.


PLC.... I know, I know I have a small johnson

At least slaquer gets it. That's the point I was trying to make to him also. My argument was for the post 9/11 candidates, the pre 9/11 still did far better than their contemporaries with the stock options and the profit sharing. You're clueless Flyer1015 when it come to the industry, either you're not a current pilot, or you've been on Gilligans Island for the past 13 years and the radio's broke.

 

[Flyer1015]

So the excuse is still, pay, profit sharing, and stock options justifies it? Maybe Delta and United management could learn a lesson here. Pay enough on paper, with promises tied to profit sharing, and pilots will line to buy their own type ratings. Hopefully, not everybody. But in those pilot contracts, they have it written that pilot will not be required to pay for training or activities associated with doing a pilot job.


Please, there is no valid excuse for a consecutively profitable airline in history to keep on keeping that silly requirement. This isn't a enty level regional job PFT, this is a legacy carrier that is making money and yet requires you to earn the job type rating elsewhere. If one is hired for a job, the training required for the duties/performance of that job should be paid for.

Here's a question, if hired at SWA, and you don't obtain the 737 type rating within 6 months as they ask, what can happen then? If they fire you, then that's all one needs to know about this practice.

 

[redflyer65]

It's funny when people complain about what Southwest guys made in the past. Not knowing those guys had hundreds of thousands of dollars in stock options at the time. Hundreds of guys that retired multi-millionaires, but it doesn't fit very well into their arguement.

 

[Flyer1015]

Stock options works out well when the times are good, not so much when they're not.

 

[FlyinGuy]

That is why stock options are not part of our "game" right now.

 

[redflyer65]

Profit sharing was huge then too Flyer1015. Sometimes hitting 15% for multiple years, along with the stock options. Those guys cleaned up.

The payrates are now alot higher than then. I'd say we are still doing just a little better than okay.

So 40+ years of profit, year after year. Stability in an industry that's unheard of.

You don't like it, don't apply. Work for VA. Good luck there.

 

[HowardBorden]

That was when legacy carriers took concessionary contracts and SWA didn't. But prior to 9/11, and throughout its existence, SWA was the bottom barrel in 737 pay and still required a pilot to obtain their own 737 type rating. So what's your excuse then?

My excuse is "I didn't work there then."

 

[Flyer1015]

Instead of a "if you don't like it, don't apply" why not a "we should get SWAPA to put this on the table for negotiations next time." You know, to get in line with the industry standard. Pay, profit sharing, stock options do not justify this kind of practice.

 

[scoreboardII]

Instead of a "if you don't like it, don't apply" why not a "we should get SWAPA to put this on the table for negotiations next time." You know, to get in line with the industry standard. Pay, profit sharing, stock options do not justify this kind of practice.

Let me get this straight, you really want to work at SWA but can't scrape the cash together or are not smart enough to have another company /military foot the bill so you want SWAPA to change our contract which already has a no pilot pays for training clause, right?

You little minded folks can't seem to understand everyone pays for training: your private pilot license, commercial, instrument, multi, CFI, a lawyer pays for his school, same for Dr's, same for plumbers, same for contractors. Maybe the other airlines suck so bad they have to let the riff raff in who come unprepared... News flash: NOT SWA.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Instead of a "if you don't like it, don't apply" why not a "we should get SWAPA to put this on the table for negotiations next time." You know, to get in line with the industry standard. Pay, profit sharing, stock options do not justify this kind of practice.

I see it's time for another round of "I got nothing else, so I'll play the Southwest PFT card again!"

Why do you keep harping on this? Seriously? Different airlines have different minimums. For SWA, it's ATP, 737 type, and 1500 turbine PIC hours. Other airlines require less hours, or no type, or not even ATP. It's up to them to decide what they want, and up to you to get it if you want to apply there. SWA doesn't require a 4-year college degree; others do. Why don't you give grief to Delta for requiring a college degree of their applicants when we don't? Why don't you give grief to airlines requiring ATP when some others don't? Clearly this is just the piddly-crap you've come up with to bash SWA. 'Cause you don't like our minimums? If that's all you've got, then I feel pretty good about my choice of employer.

Why does SWA still require it? I don't know for sure. In the beginning, I suppose it was to make sure that you really wanted to work here (a new airline) and weren't as likely to bolt after training and stuff. Nowadays, while clearly they could probably do without, it still ensures that SWA attracts applicants who really want to be here. Plus, this way, they know you're qualified to be a captain when you start; fewer surprises later. Also, since they know you're qualified on the only airplane we've got, that allows the interviewers to concentrate on finding out about your personality, and whether they want to sit next to this guy for hours at a time.

To answer your other question about the six-month thing, and if they "fire you" if you dont' get the type rating by then. You actually only get "provisionally hired," without the type if you pass the interview, but you can't start newhire training until you get the type rating within six months (that is, finish satisfying the company's hiring minimums).

Well, there you go--answers to your questions. Although I suspect you really weren't looking for real answers--you just want to bitch about Southwest. However, it really is as simple as Scoreboard says: if you don't meet the minimums for any job position (whether that be so many hours, an unrelated college degree, or whatever rating or ratings), then you can't apply. If you wanna' bitch, then knock yourself out. However, you'd be better off utilizing your time applying to a company whose minimums you DO meet, or work to increase your personal qualifications. Your choice.

Bubba

 

[canyonblue]

ARGHHHH!!!! :smash: :uzi:

 

[canyonblue]

Instead of a "if you don't like it, don't apply" why not a "we should get SWAPA to put this on the table for negotiations next time." You know, to get in line with the industry standard. Pay, profit sharing, stock options do not justify this kind of practice.

Why don't you start at your place and let us worry about ours. Damn, too much typing directed your way, are you really that clueless?

 

[slaquer5]

Instead of a "if you don't like it, don't apply" why not a "we should get SWAPA to put this on the table for negotiations next time." You know, to get in line with the industry standard. Pay, profit sharing, stock options do not justify this kind of practice.

I would rather SWAPA do what the majority of SWA pilots wanted, when SWAPA sent out the surveys and did phone surveys .


I think that would be better than , listening to a new hire ,Virgin America pilot.

 

[SWA717]

I think I would rather pay for my type rating, than have to listen to that gay techno music in the boarding area of a VA flight.

 

[Flyer1015]

I see it's time for another round of "I got nothing else, so I'll play the Southwest PFT card again!"

Why do you keep harping on this? Seriously? Different airlines have different minimums. For SWA, it's ATP, 737 type, and 1500 turbine PIC hours. Other airlines require less hours, or no type, or not even ATP. It's up to them to decide what they want, and up to you to get it if you want to apply there. SWA doesn't require a 4-year college degree; others do. Why don't you give grief to Delta for requiring a college degree of their applicants when we don't? Why don't you give grief to airlines requiring ATP when some others don't? Clearly this is just the piddly-crap you've come up with to bash SWA. 'Cause you don't like our minimums? If that's all you've got, then I feel pretty good about my choice of employer.

Why does SWA still require it? I don't know for sure. In the beginning, I suppose it was to make sure that you really wanted to work here (a new airline) and weren't as likely to bolt after training and stuff. Nowadays, while clearly they could probably do without, it still ensures that SWA attracts applicants who really want to be here. Plus, this way, they know you're qualified to be a captain when you start; fewer surprises later. Also, since they know you're qualified on the only airplane we've got, that allows the interviewers to concentrate on finding out about your personality, and whether they want to sit next to this guy for hours at a time.

To answer your other question about the six-month thing, and if they "fire you" if you dont' get the type rating by then. You actually only get "provisionally hired," without the type if you pass the interview, but you can't start newhire training until you get the type rating within six months (that is, finish satisfying the company's hiring minimums).

Well, there you go--answers to your questions. Although I suspect you really weren't looking for real answers--you just want to bitch about Southwest. However, it really is as simple as Scoreboard says: if you don't meet the minimums for any job position (whether that be so many hours, an unrelated college degree, or whatever rating or ratings), then you can't apply. If you wanna' bitch, then knock yourself out. However, you'd be better off utilizing your time applying to a company whose minimums you DO meet, or work to increase your personal qualifications. Your choice.

Bubba

I wanted to to thank you for this response. Of all the posting here, this is the most rationale, thought out post.

As for the point of giving grief to the airlines that require an ATP or a college degree, those aren't aircraft-specific requirements. A college degree has nothing to do with aviation/pilot. And an ATP is also not aircraft-specific, meaning you can get an ATP out of a light twin Seneca, Seminole, etc. Most people, in their course of an aviation career, will end up obtaining an ATP through an upgrade, or by a weekend checkride in a twin through someone they know. None of these are aircraft specific, as a type rating is.

Nowadays, while clearly they could probably do without, it still ensures that SWA attracts applicants who really want to be here. Plus, this way, they know you're qualified to be a captain when you start; fewer surprises later. Also, since they know you're qualified on the only airplane we've got, that allows the interviewers to concentrate on finding out about your personality, and whether they want to sit next to this guy for hours at a time.

I know plenty of guys who really want to be at SWA but their current family/financial situation prevents them from dropping 7-8k large on a 737 type. Qualified to be a Captain when you start? At this level, SWA is not the first rodeo for pilots. Since they already require 1000-1500TPIC time, that means they are hiring people who have already been Captains, people who have proven that they can do it. Lots of airlines hire and then fully (PIC) type the newhire pilot, and that takes care of any issues of knowing they can be Captain qualified. As for the interviewers, in the two pilot interviews I've had, none had any airplane-specific questions. All of them were TMAAT and HR type questions to get to know you. HR already knows you are a pilot, and they presume you will be able to pass training with even a half bit of effort. It isn't hard. The HR interview/pilot board concentrate on whether or not an individual would be a good fit, and if you can spend a 4-day trip with him/her. That's why most interview questions are TMAAT formats, and not "what is the DC battery voltage on the 737?"

Thanks for acknowledging that it's something clearly they could probably do without. That's an honest assessment, and I'd agree.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Who cares. If you don't want to get one....don't!!!

If you want to have a shot at getting hired (in2017 when we start again)....get it!!

Got it??