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SWA 2006 New Hire Pilot Demograhpics

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Bravodude, In the military you serve at the pleasure of the President. Money magazine rated the military as one of the worst careers in terms of job stability. There is absolutely no guaranteed that anyone can finish 20 years and retire. Talk to the Vietnam Vets who went through the contraction of the military after Vietnam or the Cold War vets who experienced the peace dividend drawdown of the early 90’s. That is not to mention not staying a cockpit after your first 10-12 years as you mature into senior officer positions.
 
I Know SWA/FO and I can tell you that if you knew him you would understand his humor. That boy is funny! Anyway, I know defending him is not what you are looking for, but I had to.


As far as Mil/Civ argument goes, after six months on the job either can do the job just a well as the other. A FEW of both can't let go of the past. We are are all SWA pilots at this company now! Blue pants, white shirt, white stripes, GET IT?
 
I Know SWA/FO and I can tell you that if you knew him you would understand his humor. That boy is funny! Anyway, I know defending him is not what you are looking for, but I had to.

thanks union brother..
 
Quick education for my non-military brethren about officers in the AF. You are not guaranteed a pilot slot when you join. If you do get one, there is no guarantee you will make it through pilot training (my class had about a 30% washout rate). You are in an up or out promotion system. Pretty much guaranteed to make the first 2 promotions up to captain unless the military decides to downsize and force you out. After that, it is more about the non flying portion of your job for getting promoted. Most guys will make major and if you go to a staff job and do the right things, you make Lt Col. If you don't make Lt Col, you have to leave after 20 years. If you do make it, you have to leave after 27 years. Very few make it above Lt Col and if you do, you are almost guaranteed to be not flying.
So, for the vast majority there are 2 routes. You either go the route to get promoted to Lt Col and retire at 20 years (doesn't make much sense for most to go beyond 20 years as your retirement pay won't increase much, you are more likely to go to a non-flying position, and the longer you wait to retire the shorter your time will be for your next job which you have to do as you are forced out of the AF well before you can fully retire), or you can serve your required time after pilot training (roughly 10 years of service) and then go the civilian route. Most of that go this route also go to the Reserves/Guard as they already have built times towards retirement that they would get none of if they didn't do this, as well as to maintain currency while waiting for their airline job. Additionally, most of them love the military flying/patriotism, but either couldn't get promoted or didn't want to do the additional things such as a non-flying job, getting a masters degree, etc. that would get them promoted.
Hopefully this helps give you an understanding.
 
I think they try pretty hard to weed out the a-holes regardless of background.
Well that explains it....all this time I've been wondering what I did or did not do to receive the letter. I guess my wife WAS right.....
 
Quick education for my non-military brethren about officers in the AF. You are not guaranteed a pilot slot when you join. If you do get one, there is no guarantee you will make it through pilot training (my class had about a 30% washout rate). You are in an up or out promotion system. Pretty much guaranteed to make the first 2 promotions up to captain unless the military decides to downsize and force you out. After that, it is more about the non flying portion of your job for getting promoted. Most guys will make major and if you go to a staff job and do the right things, you make Lt Col. If you don't make Lt Col, you have to leave after 20 years. If you do make it, you have to leave after 27 years. Very few make it above Lt Col and if you do, you are almost guaranteed to be not flying.
So, for the vast majority there are 2 routes. You either go the route to get promoted to Lt Col and retire at 20 years (doesn't make much sense for most to go beyond 20 years as your retirement pay won't increase much, you are more likely to go to a non-flying position, and the longer you wait to retire the shorter your time will be for your next job which you have to do as you are forced out of the AF well before you can fully retire), or you can serve your required time after pilot training (roughly 10 years of service) and then go the civilian route. Most of that go this route also go to the Reserves/Guard as they already have built times towards retirement that they would get none of if they didn't do this, as well as to maintain currency while waiting for their airline job. Additionally, most of them love the military flying/patriotism, but either couldn't get promoted or didn't want to do the additional things such as a non-flying job, getting a masters degree, etc. that would get them promoted.
Hopefully this helps give you an understanding.

That makes alot more sense to me now. thank you!
 
Of course we could cover the Civi route too.... except there are thousands of different stories, most will no pay/benefits (unlike a government job can provide.)

Guess what? this route comes with no guarantee either, but who really cares?

The only difference is if your in the Mil you're in the Mil... if they don't want you to fly, you don't fly. When your a Civi, you decide when you don't want to fly (chase the dream) anymore.
 
"You civilain guys" or similar make me cringe.

I get it, replying (better described as taking the bait) to a small number of yahoos rattling your cage. Please remember as you pontificate that many of us civilian pilots are prior military. We fixed the planes you flew, ensured you were paid while others were the tip of the spear hanging it out as much as any of you. The "you will never know the pride" rant rings hallow to the surprisingly large number of us who served. Please remember that before you breech load the next round directed at civilians.

Former Marine, infantry.
 
Hoorah, USMC forever
 
SWA/FO is "that guy" that gives civilian guys a bad name. I do take that sh*t seriously, because he is the reason why we have that rift going between the civ/mil thing.:puke:

He's the f**king clown that will never know the pride of serving your country/wearing the uniform and probably babbles about his hatred toward our military throughout an entire 4 day. I'll throw 5 bucks down on a bet he probably got burned/turned down by the military sometime in his sorry past.

Wow, we have kids like this flying around with bombs attached to their aricraft? Scary. Sounds like hes the one trying to impress the girls at Starbucks, wearing the cool uniform and all.
 
"You civilain guys" or similar make me cringe.

I get it, replying (better described as taking the bait) to a small number of yahoos rattling your cage. Please remember as you pontificate that many of us civilian pilots are prior military. We fixed the planes you flew, ensured you were paid while others were the tip of the spear hanging it out as much as any of you. The "you will never know the pride" rant rings hallow to the surprisingly large number of us who served. Please remember that before you breech load the next round directed at civilians.

Former Marine, infantry.


O.K. Russ. Not much going on tonight so I'll take the bait - doesn't "you military guys" bother you too? I guess not. It's like the 20+ year military retired guys in flight ops who claim they know what's it like as a guard/reservist. They don't have a clue, just like you don't have a clue what it's like to serve in this fashion . Just like I didn't have a clue, nor did I care, while I was on active duty. But now, reality is much different than perception.

Anyway, you have actually served rather than presume to know what's its like, like many of the rest. So, what are your thoughts on guard and reserve soldiers/marines/airmen etc - especially today compared to 6 years ago? Just cashing a check, working the retirement plan and exploiting USERRA as SWA/FO asserts, or have things changed lately? Or, just like when we were on active duty, do you not even care, despite the exponentially higher use of part-timers these days. The number of casualties as a percentage of those deployed is higher for guard/reserve than active duty during the past year or so, but I guess that doesn't matter. Is it possible that our active duty military is over extended and the pentagon is relying much more on guard and reserve than they ever did - this includes both combat overseas and training and staff billets in CONUS? Or, is it just the old days of one weekend a month with coffee and donuts at the armory checking off a year toward retirement or dropping airlline trips with mil leave just to make the kids ballgames?

"the pride rant rings hallow". The ones making the rant have served and continue to serve dude, and my guess is you're way in the minority with that claim.

I would bet that there are some of your former Marine bud's that left active duty but stayed in the reserves and have been activated to the desert. What would you say about them, less than patriotic because they didn't stay in for a career? Ask an active duty Marine or soldier or pilot, or whatever you want to pick, serving along side a reservist who is either on the front lines as a grunt or back in the training command doing over 30% or the sorties or somewhere in-between what they think. Part-time scammer or big time contributor? You might be surprised.

So, that is my issue and is what gets under the skin of all us "yahoos". This is not the part-time soldier days of years past. Those - and I guess I'll include you in this - that discount patriotism as a motivator for today's guardsman and reservist are out of date - given the time commitment and potential to deploy - and, ah possibly die - have eliminated the majority of the check cashers and "working the planners". So, yes, we did all volunteer. But guess what, we're still here.


I'm done here. Standing by for whatever you have. Thanks for your sevice as well.

Ben
 
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Ben

"you military guys" bother you too? I guess not"

You shouldn't make assumptions, especially based off a single post. Yes it does bother me to see your mil service denigrated as indirectly it's a swipe at mine as well. The scope of your response however far exceeds the simple request I had of mil pilots to remember before you fire that many of us civilian pilots are folks who served as well.
I cannot comment on the trials and tribulations of the ANG vs reserves vs AD. Other than to acknowledge the basic existence of all three, I have no expertise in the area. Nothing personal but I have little desire to find out either. I was thankful for CAS support as a grunt. I didn't care if the guy driving was active duty or not. I could ask you if you're familiar with some of the differing programs available within the Marine reserves to illustrate my point, but Google makes for easy and quick research. I would be impressed if you honestly could however. I've been out a lot longer than six years, so I can't give you the reflection you ask. I would say that the reserves seem to be a lot more integral to the mission's success than in the past.

"my guess is you're way in the minority with that claim"

Agreed, but its a sizable minority. My guess, and my guess alone is about 20% of regional pilots have a mil background.

You seem to sense a lack of respect from me, or perhaps others because you're guard or reserve.(that being my assumption) Well, you're off the mark. I respect anyone who raises the right hand and swears an oath of allegiance to their nation. I also recognize the added burden it imposes on families and civilian careers put on hold. Thank you.
 
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Well one thing is for certain, Regional Airline flying sucks, Cargo flying sucks, Corporate flying sucks and Military flying sucks. Or else we all wouldn't be here. Now get back to work.
 
Dude. Major airline flying sucks too! Why don't they just give me 4 million now and I'll go away.

Gup :)

Well alright Gup, I'm with ya! But first add the other $1,000,000 P.E. says were gonna get from 60-65. :puke:
 
No I can't think of any time Military flying sucked, the mil may have sucked at times, but not the flying.
 

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