Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

SW places firm order for 150 737 Max, announced this morning (12-13-2011)

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web
Register   Log in
God, this again?

No hate at all- just entertainment value- and you reiterating the "pride before the fall" decision doesn't earn any respect in my book
F9 is fast becoming irrelevant in DEN - you had the chance to secure the future of all f9 pilots- but made an adult choice-
The only people who think of you anymore are those of us w/ friends there who truly wish for a good outcome for them- but also know that SWA is very tough to compete against and the odds aren't good-
Good luck-
 
Wave,
Good to see that you're still as full of yourself as always. What you "Warriors" are missing is that this thread is not about anything but aircraft orders. Not how you are going to kill F9 in Denver with your "Warrior Spirit". Just aircraft orders and what they mean. That is all. But if you can sneak in a Warrior Pilot's perspective of airline business, that is good too. Frontier and Southwest will end up wherever they end up with or without your analysis or your Madam Cleo gifts.

BTW, I was not against the SWA buyout of Frontier, I just said I would rather be an Airbus A-320 Captain flying near International than commuting as a reserve FO at SWA on the B-737. Interestingly the creditor's committee didn't ask for my opinion nor would a unanimous vote by all the F9 pilots for a successful SWA bid have changed anything with the ultimate outcome of that proccess. And you already know that.
 
Last edited:
slaquer5 said:
Thanks Bro, I needed a good laugh :)
Click to expand...

Funny, you just said in post 54 you wished the f9 guys the best and than just a couple posts later you are laughing at them and seem to be supporting the "if f9 didn't want to be stapled to us I hope they fail" attitude.
 
USMC319 said:
Wave,
Good to see that you're still as full of yourself as always. What you "Warriors" are missing is that this thread is not about anything but aircraft orders. Not how you are going to kill F9 in Denver with your "Warrior Spirit". Just aircraft orders and what they mean. That is all. But if you can sneak in a Warrior Pilot's perspective of airline business, that is good too. Frontier and Southwest will end up wherever they end up with or without your analysis or your Madam Cleo gifts.

BTW, I was not against the SWA buyout of Frontier, I just said I would rather be an Airbus A-320 Captain flying near International than commuting as a reserve FO at SWA on the B-737. Interestingly the creditor's committee didn't ask for my opinion nor would a unanimous vote by all the F9 pilots for a successful SWA bid have changed anything with the ultimate outcome of that proccess. And you already know that.
Click to expand...

Seems to me You nailed it. I don't get why some SWA folks don't seem to understand that it makes total sense if a F9 pilot would rather continue flying an Airbus in DEN rather than commute to a SWA base and perhaps never get back to DEN. Just because SWA currently has a higher pay rate doesn't mean they are a "better" job. For many, living were you want and doing the kind of flying you want far surpasses a higher wage. You would think the SWA pilots of anyone would understand someone wanting to make their own airline successful in the future. F9 could easily be going great a few years from now. If they get an owner who can realize it's potential the F9 guys will be very happy they didn't get dissolved and stapled to the bottom of SWA.
The SWA folks on here don't seem to understand that there is a lot more to life than flying for SWA. That's not a slam on SWA it's fine if someone wants to work there, but thinking everyone else should is a little narcissistic.
 
Last edited:
USMC319 said:
Seems like we still have a few F9 haters over there at good old SWA. We appreciate your concerns. Unlike you two Aces, my post was merely stating that aircraft orders don't equate to good times or growth for that matter. Incidently, I still wouldn't give up my captains seat to be on the bottom of your list. Sorry to burst your bubble. That's my opinion only. If I was still a ute, I would have a different outlook on it all I'm sure. Hate away boys!
Click to expand...

Just a point of clarification.

WN has 597 jets on order/option through 2027. We currently have about 260 733, 735, 717. That leaves roughly 340 aircraft to retire a few 700's and a couple hundred left over to "keep up with the Jones'.

Gup
 
Dan Roman said:
Funny, you just said in post 54 you wished the f9 guys the best and than just a couple posts later you are laughing at them and seem to be supporting the "if f9 didn't want to be stapled to us I hope they fail" attitude.
Click to expand...


Dan i am laughing at the Frontier pilots telling our new hires it will be all gloom and doom.

Also go back and read your posts. You sure like to use the work IF a lot.


As I always tell my Dad when he says if.

( If uncle Bill had tits he would be my aunt .)



My Dad does not like like me saying it either :)
 
slaquer5 said:
Dan i am laughing at the Frontier pilots telling our new hires it will be all gloom and doom.

Also go back and read your posts. You sure like to use the work IF a lot.


As I always tell my Dad when he says if.

( If uncle Bill had tits he would be my aunt .)



My Dad does not like like me saying it either :)
Click to expand...

How about if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass?

The point is this entire industry is a big if.
Absolutely no guaranties for any of us and anything can happen. The only thing we can count on is there will be plenty of unexpected surprises for all of us. It's possible that SWA could be hurting in 5 years, I doubt it, but it is quite possible, and it is more likely F9 could be doing well. In which case they would be lucky they stayed independent
 
Last edited:
Dan Roman said:
Seems to me You nailed it. I don't get why some SWA folks don't seem to understand that it makes total sense if a F9 pilot would rather continue flying an Airbus in DEN rather than commute to a SWA base and perhaps never get back to DEN. Just because SWA currently has a higher pay rate doesn't mean they are a "better" job. For many, living were you want and doing the kind of flying you want far surpasses a higher wage. You would think the SWA pilots of anyone would understand someone wanting to make their own airline successful in the future. F9 could easily be going great a few years from now. If they get an owner who can realize it's potential the F9 guys will be very happy they didn't get dissolved and stapled to the bottom of SWA.
The SWA folks on here don't seem to understand that there is a lot more to life than flying for SWA. That's not a slam on SWA it's fine if someone wants to work there, but thinking everyone else should is a little narcissistic.
Click to expand...

To be fair, during the hours' worth of negotiation, SWA offered three of the four things Frontier wanted: Pay protection, furlough protection, and domicile protection. The only one of the four not offered was seat protection. That means none of the Frontier guys would have had to commute back to Denver. They would have kept their base positions.

Also importantly, none of them would have gotten furloughed. None. Gary gave his word on that, and I'd go out on a limb and say that GK's word is worth a lot more than BB's word. Ask the Midwest Express pilots what they think of that. However, Frontier's negotiating committee went back and put out that word that SWA would have "furloughed the bottom 20% of F9," and was hailed as a hero for 'saving' the junior pilots. Patently false.

Regardless, they turned it down and ended up with Republic. That was their choice. As Dan mentioned, they didn't want to fly for SWA. Good for them, and good luck to them. I sincerely hope things work out for them, regardless of the SWA-Frontier acquisition failure.

Bubba
 
Bubba,
Maybe Gary should have upped the ante and won the bid then. You well know that the frontier pilots had nothing to do with it. Personally, I was hoping that SWA would have beat out RAH. But they didn't. That's just the cold hard facts of the case, now...back to fantasy land we go.
 
madjack said:
Maybe SWA got a good look at the books and decided not to up the ante...
Click to expand...
Well there you have it. Finally we can pin the whole thing on the bean counters. It wasn't the F9 pilots' fault after all. Thanks for cracking the case madjack.

Back to the topic of this thread, Frontier has a firm order for 60 Airbus A-320 NEOs and 20 A-319 NEOs and 40 Bombardier C-series 300s and 40 options. I hope we take delivery of all of them and I hope they are all for growth. I hope WN takes delivery of all their orders and that they are for growth as well. See, we don't have to wish ill on each other.
 
USMC319 said:
Bubba,
Maybe Gary should have upped the ante and won the bid then. You well know that the frontier pilots had nothing to do with it. Personally, I was hoping that SWA would have beat out RAH. But they didn't. That's just the cold hard facts of the case, now...back to fantasy land we go.
Click to expand...

At that point, 'upping the ante' wouldn't have made any difference. GK's offer always had the stipulation that the deal (any amount of money) would still require pilot union agreement prior to consummation. Enter the short but failed negotiation between SWAPA & FAPA. At that point, it was all over but the handwringing. For better or worse, GK keeps his word, and had essentially painted himself into a corner: no pilot deal, no overall deal.

The court wanted him to remove that stipulation, and RAH proffered a higher bid in case he did. But since he wouldn't, no amount of SWA bid would have mattered. Keep in mind the short time period the auction lasted. How much higher he would have gone had there actually been a pilot agreement is pure speculation; however, he did say he was in the auction to win. Who knows?

Like I said, GK honors his word regardless, and as a result, he made no such stipulation in his Airtran acquisition. To avoid a similar situation, I'd imagine. Ergo, the position that ALL of us are in today.

I'm not wishing bad on anyone; I hope 2012 brings career improvements to ALL of us.

Bubba
 
Go Steelers!
 

Share this page

Latest posts

Latest resources

Latest media

Carbon Cub FX-3 Shenandoah Valley
Carbon Cub at Kittyhawk
FX-3 in the backcountry
IFR Panel in a Carbon Cub FX-3
Cub-Provo-UT-c.jpg
Back
Top