"Suspected Sleeping go! (Mesa) Pilots Fired"

[cheerios2]

boeing= 20 min, PTT resets timer. IF you equip that option..

first its an EICAS msg, then two stages of audio.

 

[TWA]

Ok, so say these two guys hurried their asses up and filed some NASA reports after this happened, would that of possibly saved their careers?

I have to agree with the company in letting these guys go, you just can't allow that kind of sh!t to go on.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Soverytired,

Why do you so often sound much like a management guy (wolf) in pilots (sheeps) clothing when you discuss things?

Just curious if you are or not.

Thanks.

 

[Soverytired]

Soverytired,

Why do you so often sound much like a management guy (wolf) in pilots (sheeps) clothing when you discuss things?

Just curious if you are or not.

Thanks.

I'm not. I hold Mesa management in the utmost contempt. My only regret in leaving Mesa when I did was that I was unable to go on strike before I left.

However, unlike the vast majority of Mesa news followers on flightinfo.com, I do NOT hold Mesa pilots in contempt. I came from their ranks, and have a great deal of respect for them. Rather than join the legions of ex-Aloha/ex-Indy pilots here who dominate this niche of flightinfo and gloat over their ballyhooed "impending" demise, I sincerely hope they make it through this mess with a re-negotiated and fair contract . . . plus a new CEO.

Take this "sleeping pilot" issue. I've been defending these guys from day one. I flew the worst possible schedules at Mesa for two years, and I can tell you . . . this happens at Mesa a great deal more than you might think. It's not pilots fault (usually) . . .it's management adhering to the letter of the law and not the spirit. Not to mention common sense (i.e. human beings need to sleep)

I believe Mesa management knows it, doesn't care, and will happily risk passengers lives by sending tired pilots out to fly as long as they can tell the FAA they followed the duty time regs . .. it's the pilots job to call "fatigued", right?

Even now, when the evidence against them looks pretty damning, I'm STILL defending them, and will until there is simply no other option. This puts me in the distinct minority of posters on flightinfo, who alternately gloat simply because it's MESA pilots or who look down their nose and say "that would never happen to me."


What the hell is an Amish rake fight anyway?

 

[trolleydriver]

Here's a typical Mesa schedule

XX XXX XXXXX/XXXX POS CA DAY 01 REPORT 1140
4714 SLN MHK 1220 1247
4714 MHK MCI 1248 1330
4734 MCI HYS 1410 1520
4734 HYS GBD 1522 1553
4734 GBD MCI 1555 1655
4787 MCI COU 1715 1802
9385 COU ICT 2153 2304
9385 ICT MCI 2335 0038
4727 MCI MHK 0045 0122
4727 MHK SLN 0125 0152
D-END 0207/XX BLKT 0755 TCRD 0731
TDTY 1427

14:27 duty Duty on at 1140 Duty Off at 0207 10 legs
7:55 Block
7:31 Pay

Duty on next day at 1140. x4 a week

 

[Amish RakeFight]

What the hell is an Amish rake fight anyway?

Technically, it's a fight where two macho Amish men go round for round, fighting til the death with razor sharp prongs strung together on their labor rakes.
It also serves as an alias which will make identifying me astronomically difficult. I have this privacy issue in my personal life. It borderlines on insane.

Thanks for your response. It's just that your comments seemed a bit contrived to present a deceptive motive. A lot of hedging when it comes to MAG.

 

[RJP]

I really do wonder who their unnamed "sources" were (disgruntled ex-Aloha pilots, perhaps?)

You really are an idiot.

 

[go!ng for broke]

I'm not. I hold Mesa management in the utmost contempt. My only regret in leaving Mesa when I did was that I was unable to go on strike before I left.

However, unlike the vast majority of Mesa news followers on flightinfo.com, I do NOT hold Mesa pilots in contempt. I came from their ranks, and have a great deal of respect for them. Rather than join the legions of ex-Aloha/ex-Indy pilots here who dominate this niche of flightinfo and gloat over their ballyhooed "impending" demise, I sincerely hope they make it through this mess with a re-negotiated and fair contract . . . plus a new CEO.

Take this "sleeping pilot" issue. I've been defending these guys from day one. I flew the worst possible schedules at Mesa for two years, and I can tell you . . . this happens at Mesa a great deal more than you might think. It's not pilots fault (usually) . . .it's management adhering to the letter of the law and not the spirit. Not to mention common sense (i.e. human beings need to sleep)

I believe Mesa management knows it, doesn't care, and will happily risk passengers lives by sending tired pilots out to fly as long as they can tell the FAA they followed the duty time regs . .. it's the pilots job to call "fatigued", right?

Even now, when the evidence against them looks pretty damning, I'm STILL defending them, and will until there is simply no other option. This puts me in the distinct minority of posters on flightinfo, who alternately gloat simply because it's MESA pilots or who look down their nose and say "that would never happen to me."


What the hell is an Amish rake fight anyway?

Flightinfo has bashed mesa for years. Now it's the ex-Aloha guys. Go piissss up a rope.

 

[Soverytired]

Flightinfo has bashed mesa for years. Now it's the ex-Aloha guys. Go piissss up a rope.

Hmm.

What's the origin of the "Go!ing for broke" avatar? Hard to believe a regional pilot would create an avatar to bash Mesa. So . . . Aloha or Hawaiian?

 

[Sam Snead]

Here's a typical Mesa schedule

XX XXX XXXXX/XXXX POS CA DAY 01 REPORT 1140
4714 SLN MHK 1220 1247
4714 MHK MCI 1248 1330
4734 MCI HYS 1410 1520
4734 HYS GBD 1522 1553
4734 GBD MCI 1555 1655
4787 MCI COU 1715 1802
9385 COU ICT 2153 2304
9385 ICT MCI 2335 0038
4727 MCI MHK 0045 0122
4727 MHK SLN 0125 0152
D-END 0207/XX BLKT 0755 TCRD 0731
TDTY 1427

14:27 duty Duty on at 1140 Duty Off at 0207 10 legs
7:55 Block
7:31 Pay

Duty on next day at 1140. x4 a week

You have several two minute turns there and one one-minute turn...

nice try, unless the passengers hurled themselves out of the door as you rolled by the ramp.

 

[go!ng for broke]

Hmm.

What's the origin of the "Go!ing for broke" avatar? Hard to believe a regional pilot would create an avatar to bash Mesa. So . . . Aloha or Hawaiian?

Its quite a deal at $10. I highly recommend it.

 

[trolleydriver]

You have several two minute turns there and one one-minute turn...

nice try, unless the passengers hurled themselves out of the door as you rolled by the ramp.

Yeah dispatch called the ground station about that too. The W&B was done before landing, got a through clearance from Center before landing. No one deplaned or boarded, didn't take on any fuel, left #2 running, shut #1 down, FO got out, walked around the airplane, got back in, FO made sure all the pax were still seated, then shut the door and jumped back in his seat, agent pulled the chocks and took off again checked back in with center who said wow you guys were off freq for only 6 mins from the frequency change.

 

[say again]

So why did they both nod off? One possible factor. We've learned they flew together 2 days before and on those flights, the autopilot on the plane wasn't working. So they had to use manual controls.


Are you f-ing kidding me?!?!

 

[TWA]

Yeah dispatch called the ground station about that too. The W&B was done before landing, got a through clearance from Center before landing. No one deplaned or boarded, didn't take on any fuel, left #2 running, shut #1 down, FO got out, walked around the airplane, got back in, FO made sure all the pax were still seated, then shut the door and jumped back in his seat, agent pulled the chocks and took off again checked back in with center who said wow you guys were off freq for only 6 mins from the frequency change.

Unless I completely missed something, what is the point of landing if no pax ever change and no fuel is uploaded?

 

[CA1900]

Unless I completely missed something, what is the point of landing if no pax ever change and no fuel is uploaded?

You've never experienced the farce that is the Essential Air Service program, eh?


At my last employer (not Mesa), we were hounded about completing those flights, often flying in and out completely empty in order to keep receiving the gub'mint cheese. On one city pair (Utica, NY, to JFK), we received over $1.1 Million a year in subsidy to fly virtually empty, while the passengers in Utica drove the 55 miles to Syracuse for the cheaper jetBlue flight. (The UCA subsidy finally ended a few years ago, I'm happy to report.)

The irony was that the pilots would drive from Syracuse to Utica to operate the (empty) flight, while the passengers would drive in the other direction. It would be funnier if I wasn't the poor bastard driving to Utica at 4am!


As a taxpayer, I was and still am astonished that the EAS program is still in place in a "deregulated" market. If your community can't sustain even a 19-seater, you don't get air service. That was the whole point of deregulation, no?