Suppy and Demand and Unionized labor

[JoeMerchant]

Too much of a good thing is bad. Too much union power and you have inefficiencies, too little union power and you have slave labor. A nice balance has worked many times in the past. Don't forget that Southwest is the most unionized airline out there and the most successful.

Good point....SWA unions worked WITH management...It's a chicken and egg argument, but some unions work WITH managment and some don't....

 

[CX880]

But it is what you'd call a union pilot group...... point?

They were saying southwest is what it is because of the union. It's because of a willing management and it's tons of cash the union can divide.

 

[JoeMerchant]

They were saying southwest is what it is because of the union. It's because of a willing management and it's tons of cash the union can divide.

....and a union that didn't overplay it's hand..

Willing and smart management + profits&cash + union = success....Take out the first two and you have a problem whether you are union or not...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

They were saying southwest is what it is because of the union. It's because of a willing management and it's tons of cash the union can divide.

Agreed..... pilots don't want to harm their airlines... good management is key.....

 

[Flightdawg]

Correct me if I am wrong but before 9-11 Southwest pilots were the lowest paid pilots in the 100-200 seat market. Now with the 50% pay cuts at the other airlines they are now the highest by default. Not exactly what I would call heroic.

A bit true, but also a bit apples and oranges. They were among the lowest paid of the major airlines, but this was mainly due to the fact, by default, their average aircraft size was a 737. Other majors averaged larger aircraft and, as a consequence, larger paychecks. Southwest didn't have a defined pension plan either. They were well paid for what they flew, but limited by the size of the aircraft they could fly.

The fall of the legacies has shot them up compared to pre9/11, but they've always been pretty good.

 

[DoinTime]

The fall of the legacies has shot them up compared to pre9/11, but they've always been pretty good.

You're kidding right? You need to read up on the history of Southwest. Being "pretty good" is a new development for them.

 

[Flightdawg]

You're kidding right? You need to read up on the history of Southwest. Being "pretty good" is a new development for them.

My post could have been clearer. Southwest has always had a terrific reputation as a place to work. Rarely have I ever heard of a Southwest pilot leaving to go work for United, Delta, American, etc pre-9/11. Even though they didn't pay as much compared to the Legacies, the pay and quality of life provided a happy pilot group. The fall of the legacies after 9/11 didn't affect SWA as much so, by comparison, they are paid better than the legacies.

Is that better for ya?

 

[DoinTime]

My post could have been clearer. Southwest has always had a terrific reputation as a place to work. Rarely have I ever heard of a Southwest pilot leaving to go work for United, Delta, American, etc pre-9/11. Even though they didn't pay as much compared to the Legacies, the pay and quality of life provided a happy pilot group. The fall of the legacies after 9/11 didn't affect SWA as much so, by comparison, they are paid better than the legacies.

Is that better for ya?

The legacy carriers are full pilots who quit from places like SWA and FedEx. 20-30 years ago airlines like these used to be a place to build jet time in hopes of landing a "good" job. Where does your version of reality come from?

 

[Flightdawg]

The legacy carriers are full pilots who quit from places like SWA and FedEx. 20-30 years ago airlines like these used to be a place to build jet time in hopes of landing a "good" job. Where does your version of reality come from?

I've heard of pilots quitting UPS to go to SWA, but never the other way around or from SWA to Legacy carriers. I'm sure it happened but seriously doubt the Legacies are "full of pilots who quit from" SWA.

In the end, so what? What are we arguing about? The demise of the Legacies? That SWA is or isn't an airline which treats its employees well compared to the Legacies? Why are you so consternated that you are driven to toss insults on people's "version of reality"? Did SWA turn you down? Why do you care?

 

[pilotyip]

Some very good posts here. Moving away from the usual unions are the best thing to ever happen to an employee, into unions have a place and limitations. I am a union realist, as a former ALPA and Teamster member I have seen what unions can and can not do. They can not make a silk purse out of a pig’s ear. Bringing in a union will not make a bad place good, however it could make a good place bad.