Sundries on the Jet: The next threat

[Freight Dog]

Yes. However, everything is relative. No matter how bad ones situation is.... it can probably get worse..

Yeah, and it can get better too... Realistically, how can things get worse in this country? This was a great profession once...

Here's another question for you... how do you stop an exodus of experience pilots from this industry/nation? Does that concern you?

Why is it necessary for our experienced pilots to seek jobs in places like China or India or stay in this country and qualify for food stamps?

Frankly, I think ALPA, along with ludicrous pay scale structures and shameful payscales chaining us to our airlines are by far bigger threats to our profession than foreign ownership.

 

[Captzaahlie]

You can leave in those examples. On an airplane in flight, you are stuck.

The airlines historically offered soft drinks and checked bags as part of the ticket price. It was part of "the service".

They have forgotten service, and made themselves into a commodity. I remember when I was a kid, my Dad would book on TWA, or we drove. That was it. Now America goes for the lowest bidder and complains about the crappy service.

Nickel and Dimeing your customers is NO WAY to gain customer loyalty.

yeah, on a cruise ship you can just jump off if you don't like it!

I can't stand the credit card announcements and tray table advertisements either.....

ok i feel better now!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, and it can get better too... Realistically, how can things get worse in this country? This was a great profession once...

Allot worse. Look at the maritime industry.

For us... foreign companies using foreign pilots to fly US passengers on foreign registered jets.

What do you value? Is it the US Air Line Pilot Profession?

Here's another question for you... how do you stop an exodus of experience pilots from this industry/nation? Does that concern you?

If you mean US pilots leaving to go work for foreign carriers like Emirates... that will stop relatively quickly...

What won't stop is lobby efforts to get the DHS and ICE to allow foreign pilots to come to the US to fly our jets.

Do you really think that corporations views us differently than any other labor. We are no different that lettuce pickers in the minds of CEOs.

Why is it necessary for our experienced pilots to seek jobs in places like China or India or stay in this country and qualify for food stamps?

Again... value. What do you value? Do you value this pilot profession? Do you hope someone else values this profession so you don't have to?

Before airplanes, the proud job was a merchant marine. Moving cargo across the oceans. That career has been sold out by Americans. the only US ships are those within the US boarders.


No one values the Air Line Pilot Profession as much as you and I..... only air line pilots will protect it.

Frankly, I think ALPA, along with ludicrous pay scale structures and shameful payscales chaining us to our airlines are by far bigger threats to our profession than foreign ownership.

I agree... and since we agree....lets do something!

 

[Freight Dog]

Allot worse. Look at the maritime industry.

Funny you should mention it. A friend of ours is an engineer on a ship... makes a killing. Should he change jobs within his industry, he won't go back to poverty as a result of it.

For us... foreign companies using foreign pilots to fly US passengers on foreign registered jets.

Hey, if they pay $65k for a regional jet FO and 100k for a captain and allow U.S. pilots to compete for those jobs.... what's wrong with it?

What do you value? Is it the US Air Line Pilot Profession?

[sarcasm]
I value it as much as Air Line Pilots Association values it. $23/hour regardless of your experience. [/sarcasm]

If you mean US pilots leaving to go work for foreign carriers like Emirates... that will stop relatively quickly...

I don't know... a lot of Aloha/ATA guys went to Emirates, many others before then. When is it gonna stop? When they have enough pilots....

What won't stop is lobby efforts to get the DHS and ICE to allow foreign pilots to come to the US to fly our jets.

Great!!!!!! LET THEM!!!! LET US GO THERE TOO!!! I don't think you'll see too many of them lining up here when they see what we offer. Did you know that an entry-level Q400 FO with 200 hours for Croatia Airlines makes 2000 euro per month and is considered grossly underpaid? Nevermind that the cost of living in Croatia is significantly less than here. UNDERPAID

Do you really think that corporations views us differently than any other labor. We are no different that lettuce pickers in the minds of CEOs.

Why should they view us any differently? Look at what we do to ourselves... We enable that look through our own system.

Again... value. What do you value? Do you value this pilot profession? Do you hope someone else values this profession so you don't have to?

Rez... if you value the current pilot profession in this country, you are a sick man!

Yes. Let's do something about it... let's abolish seniority-based payscales for starters. Captain job is worth x amount. FO job is worth y amount. Why was I making $94/hour flying a 737-700 and the flight back, we had a UAL furloughee with way more time and experience in type than me make only $30?

Start by addressing that...

 

[Captzaahlie]

Funny you should mention it. A friend of ours is an engineer on a ship... makes a killing. Should he change jobs within his industry, he won't go back to poverty as a result of it.



Hey, if they pay $65k for a regional jet FO and 100k for a captain and allow U.S. pilots to compete for those jobs.... what's wrong with it?



[sarcasm]
I value it as much as Air Line Pilots Association values it. $23/hour regardless of your experience. [/sarcasm]




I don't know... a lot of Aloha/ATA guys went to Emirates, many others before then. When is it gonna stop? When they have enough pilots....



Great!!!!!! LET THEM!!!! LET US GO THERE TOO!!! I don't think you'll see too many of them lining up here when they see what we offer. Did you know that an entry-level Q400 FO with 200 hours for Croatia Airlines makes 2000 euro per month and is considered grossly underpaid? Nevermind that the cost of living in Croatia is significantly less than here. UNDERPAID



Why should they view us any differently? Look at what we do to ourselves... We enable that look through our own system.




Rez... if you value the current pilot profession in this country, you are a sick man!

Yes. Let's do something about it... let's abolish seniority-based payscales for starters. Captain job is worth x amount. FO job is worth y amount. Why was I making $94/hour flying a 737-700 and the flight back, we had a UAL furloughee with way more time and experience in type than me make only $30?

Start by addressing that...

YES,
a very good place to start.........

 

[knightflyer]

........

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Funny you should mention it. A friend of ours is an engineer on a ship... makes a killing. Should he change jobs within his industry, he won't go back to poverty as a result of it.

So you are advocating that we pilots are only allowed to fly within CONUS? and all border crossing flights will be flown by foreigners?

Hey, if they pay $65k for a regional jet FO and 100k for a captain and allow U.S. pilots to compete for those jobs.... what's wrong with it?

They won't. They will pay allot less. that is the whole point. pay poor wages. Who will work for poor wages? Poor foreigners... for whom the pay isn't poor... but it is poor to you and I so we won't do it...

[sarcasm]
I value it as much as Air Line Pilots Association values it. $23/hour regardless of your experience. [/sarcasm]

sarcasm is cute on FI. When you want to get serious... man up.

I don't know... a lot of Aloha/ATA guys went to Emirates, many others before then. When is it gonna stop? When they have enough pilots....

Less than five years.

Great!!!!!! LET THEM!!!! LET US GO THERE TOO!!! I don't think you'll see too many of them lining up here when they see what we offer. Did you know that an entry-level Q400 FO with 200 hours for Croatia Airlines makes 2000 euro per month and is considered grossly underpaid? Nevermind that the cost of living in Croatia is significantly less than here. UNDERPAID

I am not talking about Croatia. I am talking third world countries....

Look the data and trends are out there... instead of trying to prove me wrong.. seek out the information yourself and come to your own conclusions...

Why should they view us any differently? Look at what we do to ourselves... We enable that look through our own system.

Fair enough. What should we do about it...

Rez... if you value the current pilot profession in this country, you are a sick man!

I value it more than where it is headed. And I value what I think it should be more than it is now...

Yes. Let's do something about it... let's abolish seniority-based payscales for starters. Captain job is worth x amount. FO job is worth y amount. Why was I making $94/hour flying a 737-700 and the flight back, we had a UAL furloughee with way more time and experience in type than me make only $30?

I don't think we should abolish sen based pay scales but I think we should flatten them....

But that is on your interests... if you want to abolish them, then they way to do that is by flattening them....

Start by addressing that...

not me.... we....