Sully, welcome to Phoenix

[LittleDeuce]

Aqp

My only real complaint about AQP training is that you are only in the simulator once a year. While I don't relish going into the sim necessarily, I feel it is necessary every six months, and I always feel better after I come out of it.

vetrider;

Not sure if you at US Airways or not but here, we have what is called an Opportunity for Training Day (OTD).

The OTD is used for certain criteria one of which is you can call Training Scheduling and the company will provide you with 4 hours of sim time with an Instructor at no charge. You do not get paid for it but you can do anytraining you like in the sim period.

There was a lot of pushback during early AQP development in regards to a yearly training cycle. Now, I think most pilots would prefer the format.

The performance data supports Single Visit Training (SVT). In theory, with AQP the evaluation cycle can be extended further but to my knowledge no airline is over a year.

Hope this helps.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Deuce- Please explain the rationale for one day of non-specific ground school (for which the pilots were paid) being replaced by several days worth of at home couputer based training modules over the course of a year (for which they are not paid). Is that equitable?

 

[LittleDeuce]

Cbt

Deuce- Please explain the rationale for one day of non-specific ground school (for which the pilots were paid) being replaced by several days worth of at home couputer based training modules over the course of a year (for which they are not paid). Is that equitable?

No secret here. It's cheaper and much more efficient. Contractually, the company can schedule up to 8 hours a year with no pay and credit. Above that you get paid.

The company provides CBT's at all the crew bases and the Training Center. You can also do it at home which I think most people do.
We do quarterly modules and they are fairly easy and straight forward. All are train to proficiency. The deice modules are the only ones graded.

Aircraft systems are slit into 1/3 modules. 1/3 are covered in class (ON Cycle), and the other 2/3 are self study prior to CQT (Off Cycle). The "On Cycle" systems rotate every year.

Hope this helps!

 

[Carl S.]

I believe out West we are paid for our computer based training every quarter. I get something every 3 months in my check, does the East still get the shaft under LOA 93 for distant learning? I would love to go to the sim. one more time a year, but I will not do it for free, pay me 4:17 and I'll show up!

 

[Bringupthebird]

vetrider;
There was a lot of pushback during early AQP development in regards to a yearly training cycle. Now, I think most pilots would prefer the format.

This clearly demonstrates the disconnect between the training departments (probably at most AQP airlines) and the line pilots. By removing the regular face-to-face contact and relying on feedback via e-mail (which most folks would not take the time to do unless they were "extremely dissatisfied") the training folks think everything they do is working great. While it may be easy to quantify the increased efficiency of AQP training, by lowering the bar at the same time, you can only find deficiencies in training through increases in incidents/accidents; the definition of Tombstone Mentality.

The pilot should not be responsible for assessing his own need for additional training. That is the moral if not legal responsibility of the airline and ultimately the FAA. A responsive and responsible training curriculum allows for and expands to meet the additional training demands placed on pilots and does not come without cost. It floods pilots with the material designed to help them even if they only absorb a fraction of it (which is a reasonable expectation). It takes proven training methods designed to transfer applicable knowledge in various media and does not merely meet the minimum requirements.

The system we operate within appears to work well due in large part to unmatched reliability of equipment, an ATC system that is unable to function during even moderately severe weather (thereby reducing crew exposure to such risk), and the residual benefit of thorough past training. But as NTSB reports reveal, when the system breaks down due to a failure of any one of these elements. the successful outcome often depends on the judgement of the pilot, judgement born of experience and training.

My opinion is that AQP does not contribute enough to building that storehouse of training and it may take many years to recognize it's false economy.

 

[vetrider]

vetrider;

Not sure if you at US Airways or not but here, we have what is called an Opportunity for Training Day (OTD).

The OTD is used for certain criteria one of which is you can call Training Scheduling and the company will provide you with 4 hours of sim time with an Instructor at no charge. You do not get paid for it but you can do anytraining you like in the sim period.

There was a lot of pushback during early AQP development in regards to a yearly training cycle. Now, I think most pilots would prefer the format.

The performance data supports Single Visit Training (SVT). In theory, with AQP the evaluation cycle can be extended further but to my knowledge no airline is over a year.

Hope this helps.

Thank you. I'm a westie. I have heard about the OTD but had not looked that closely at it. Having just gone through cqt on a new airplane that I don't fly alot as a reserve, I think I will be looking into it in six months or so.

 

[Cowboy75]

Members of US Airways Flight Training and Standards Department are a group of highly dedicated Instructors and Check Airmen totally committed to our pilot group.

Best Wishes...

Little Deuce,

Same goes for the West Check Airmen as well.

Sorry to hear about the 190's, reduction in fleet, East or West are a major concern. Obviously, we do not want to see any more furloughs.

Good luck to you, keep us informed.

Cowboy

 

[ableone]

Ableone;

Please Sir. You're understanding of AQP is somewhat confused. Please allow me to help you understand the concept and background.

AQP is a safety related training program and has nothing to do with saving money. Actually, the reason why a lot of 121 operators have not gone into AQP is because it's voluntary and the initial ISD development costs are high.

The FAA has indicated that further AQP approvals will not be forthcoming until more data is collected. There have been problems reported.

It should be noted that Asian carriers do not regard an AQP trained pilot as current if he/she is more than six months out of the last sim event.

AQP has everything to do with saving money. Though there are indeed start up costs, the benefits of fewer training events per crewmember per year quickly overcome the start-up costs.

Should AQP events be further spread out to every 18 months (the ultimate goal) it will save even more money.

The reason why the procedures and checklists were changed as a result of the merger was the company decided to use the Best Practices approach between the East and West. The use of Flows as memory items is based on some significant Human Factors research (Google On The Design of Flightdeck Procedures by Weiner & Dagani).

Understood. But you missed the point. Many changes occurred absent any training at all.

The first 5 simulator sessions during the Qualification Curriculum are all maneuvers based training.

AQP does not use the term recurrent. It's referred to CQT Continuing Qualification Training. CQT is completed once a year as a 3 day event. Day 1 is a ground school review. Day 2 is a 4 hour simulator training session. Day 3 is a Line Oriented Evaluation.

Yes, and a once a year three day training program is much cheaper than a once a year three day plus a one day six month sim event.

Pilot proficiency is empirically validated and supports the Single Visit Training concept. Airlines have the flexibility to adjust the evaluation cycle based on their empirical data. (i.e. some airlines bring their long haul crews back in 8 months due to the issues relating degradation of proficiency).
Distance Learning (DL) has nothing to do with AQP it's just an effective training delivery system for Non Aircraft Specific Training (de-icing, Security etc.)

Yes, you can accurately quote from the stated goals section of the AQP program. Have a candid discussion with line crews. Most consider the empirical validated pilot proficiency concepts a joke. No-one considers AQP challenging.

RNP SAAR is new for this year. It is a work in progress and still being developed. We move training objectives around all the time based on operational exposure to threats and ASAP, FOQA, and other integrated data.

Yes it is new and because the FAA mandates actual sim training prior to SAAAR operations it will have to be integrated into the AQP cycle. However, even though this is additional training there will be absolutely no additional simulator time budgeted. This would cost money so some other portions of the empirically validated proficiency segment of simulator time will have to be deleted.

May I suggest taking at look on the FAA.gov Web Site in the FSIMS and you will get some great explanations of the concepts.

I enjoy reading these boards and usually do not respond. This is twice today I felt compeld to correct some mis-statements.

Fly Safe

You sound like a shill.

 

[Metrojet]

Ableone;

Please Sir. You're understanding of AQP is somewhat confused. Please allow me to help you understand the concept and background.

AQP is a safety related training program and has nothing to do with saving money. Actually, the reason why a lot of 121 operators have not gone into AQP is because it's voluntary and the initial ISD development costs are high.

The reason why the procedures and checklists were changed as a result of the merger was the company decided to use the Best Practices approach between the East and West. The use of Flows as memory items is based on some significant Human Factors research (Google On The Design of Flightdeck Procedures by Weiner & Dagani).

The first 5 simulator sessions during the Qualification Curriculum are all maneuvers based training.

AQP does not use the term recurrent. It's referred to CQT Continuing Qualification Training. CQT is completed once a year as a 3 day event. Day 1 is a ground school review. Day 2 is a 4 hour simulator training session. Day 3 is a Line Oriented Evaluation.

Pilot proficiency is empirically validated and supports the Single Visit Training concept. Airlines have the flexibility to adjust the evaluation cycle based on their empirical data. (i.e. some airlines bring their long haul crews back in 8 months due to the issues relating degradation of proficiency).
Distance Learning (DL) has nothing to do with AQP it's just an effective training delivery system for Non Aircraft Specific Training (de-icing, Security etc.)

RNP SAAR is new for this year. It is a work in progress and still being developed. We move training objectives around all the time based on operational exposure to threats and ASAP, FOQA, and other integrated data.

May I suggest taking at look on the FAA.gov Web Site in the FSIMS and you will get some great explanations of the concepts.

I enjoy reading these boards and usually do not respond. This is twice today I felt compeld to correct some mis-statements.

Fly Safe

Little Deuce -

I appreciate your professionalism - but after reading the letter from Kirby about reducing 190 flying after only having these aircraft on the property for 2 years - isn't it frustrating that you give 100% to do your job and these guys in Tempe could care less. They just care about lining their pockets with stock - and now are going to probably put more pilots on the street. Absolutely disgusting.

Metrojet

 

[LittleDeuce]

Little Deuce -

I appreciate your professionalism - but after reading the letter from Kirby about reducing 190 flying after only having these aircraft on the property for 2 years - isn't it frustrating that you give 100% to do your job and these guys in Tempe could care less. They just care about lining their pockets with stock - and now are going to probably put more pilots on the street. Absolutely disgusting.

Metrojet

Metrojet;

Thank you. I am extremely disappointed for sure. I just came of vacation and getting into the simulator yesterday to train a new Captain was hard. This is the second time I will go through this. I was one of the Initial Cadre Check Airmen that started Mid Atlantic. I helped build the 170 and 190 program here. Also did 7 delivery flights from Brazil. It has been a privilege to be involved with the program.

I do think management is doing what they think is best for the company and I hold no ill will. Life is too short. I went through my SARA Thursday and now I'll just wait and see what transpires. The deal is not final yet.

I really hoped we would be exercising the options and getting more 190's. I guess we will have to wait and see.

Can you tell me what a shill is?

Thanks again...