Student Endoresement: High Perf / Complex

[wmuflyguy]

And I thought with the airplane having a variable pitch prop that it made it complex?? I could look it up right now, but I'm away on a trip and can't reference any of my books.

FAR 61.31

e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person
may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has
a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller;
or, in the case of a seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch
propeller), unless the person has--

 

[User546]

Danka FlyGuy... and for everyone else for answering my questions!

That's why I love this board so much! Well, that and all the hot chick's you guys have in your avatars...

 

[JRSLim]

I
And I thought with the airplane having a variable pitch prop that it made it complex?? I could look it up right now, but I'm away on a trip and can't reference any of my books.

here 'tis: 61.31
e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller ....

If ya have the net, you can look it up:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?&c=ecfr&tpl=/ecfrbrowse/Title14/14tab_02.tpl


We train PP students in HP aircraft all the time - the 210 HP T-41s. Now granted, we are at 6,000 MSL, so that cuts down the bite quite a bit, but it seems having some extra power (within limits) is more of a help than a hinderance in basic training.

Cheers!

 

[JRSLim]

That's why I love this board so much! Well, that and all the hot chick's you guys have in your avatars...

You should talk... so uhh, ya go her number?

 

[wheelsup]

Try training primary students (i.e. totally green) in 300 HP bonanzas. It's actually not that bad once they get used to it. A little nerve racking for me though on first solo, got the binoc's in the tower to make sure their gear is down each time...

~wheelsup

 

[350DRIVER]

10hrs of dual with you? or just 10hrs dual total, as in he's not even a private pilot yet?

If he's already a private pilot, he needs to log PIC while flying the plane, and can't until you endorse him.

Either way -- your signature on that endorsement says, "Dear FAA, I certify that if this guy kills himself in this plane, that you will hunt down my ass and harass me for the rest of my life."

Don't sign it until you feel that he's ready to fly it as PIC. I can't even begin to imagine how much trouble I would have gotten myself into flying a 235HP airplane with only 10hrs under my belt.

Whatever you do, don't risk your ticket.

This ain't nothing new partner, many have gotten a private in airplanes bigger, faster, and more complex than this one.

Mesa's PDP has been using A-36's with the I0-550 300 HP since day 1 with 0 time pilots in the left seat.

No big deal at all..

3 5 0

 

[minitour]

...Mesa's PDP has been using A-36's with the I0-550 300 HP since day 1 with 0 time pilots in the left seat.

No big deal at all..

3 5 0

I always wonder what goes through their mind when/if they hop into a 152...

 

[wheelsup]

mini, the funny thing is most of the guys never get into a GA aircraft after leaving the program unless they flunk out of training or don't pass the interview.

It's nuts to think that once they get their commercial they'll never see another SEL aircraft unless they want to!


~wheelsup

 

[minitour]

mini, the funny thing is most of the guys never get into a GA aircraft after leaving the program unless they flunk out of training or don't pass the interview.

It's nuts to think that once they get their commercial they'll never see another SEL aircraft unless they want to!


~wheelsup

I feel so bad for them...never having the "experience" of cramming into a 152 and religiously doing a W&B ten times, even though the numbers are always the same because you feel that maybe this tenth time it will tell you that you can actually have fuel on your flight today...but no, it's still the same...

I think flying a 152 or Citabria (or something similar) should be prerequisite for flying a transport category plane...but thats just me...

-mini

 

[Goose Egg]

This is what I'd do; fly with him in the Dakota a few times. If it looks like he'd be able to handle it, I'd continue training with him in the Dakota. If it looks like it is too much airplane for him right then, I'd suggest to him that he park the Dakota until he has his private certificate. There's a pretty big difference between 10 hours and 50+ as far as flying skill goes. If he insisted that he fly the Dakota, I'd then explain to him that solo proficiency in the Dakota is going to require a bit more flight time, but I'd have no problem working with him during that time--just so it was known that it might take a while to solo.


-Goose

 

[User546]

If it looks like it is too much airplane for him right then, I'd suggest to him that he park the Dakota until he has his private certificate.

Problem is that our local airport is uncontrolled and there is no longer a airplane for rent anywhere on the field (thus why he went and bought his own airplane).

So there's really no alternate to him flying this airplane in that given scenario.

I'm fairly confident though that this student is a cut-above most. He's very passionate about flying, wants to do it 4 and 5 times a week, and when I show him something he picks it up the first couple tries, and never forgets. In addition, he's very book-smart when it comes to studying and understanding things. I think if anyone, he'd be more then capable of handling and flying this airplane.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I really wouldn't worry about it.

Shaun mentioned the T-41. I know folks who are teaching in the civilian equivalent CE-R172 (Hawk XP) series with both the stock 195 and the un-derated 210 HP. I have a friend who, halfway through his training decided that he was going to buy a 182 and finish his training in that. Heck, I even know a guy who learned to fly in a CE-210! The original Katana had a constant speed prop and was still used as a primary trainer.

A Dakota isn't =that= complicated. Might require a little extra time since there are additional dials and levers, but the student will simply see that as normal within a very few sessions. I'm convinced that learning a complex or HP aircraft after the PPL is more about un-learning things you can get away with in the simpler airplane than about the high complexity of the new systems.

 

[FlyinTim]

To qualify for 'Complex' the A/c must have a adjustable prop....retractable gear and flaps....the airplane needs all of those to be complex..

 

[User546]

So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!

That must be why I got my complex in a Cessna 182RG!

 

[midlifeflyer]

So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!

Huh? I must've missed somehting.