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Student Endoresement: High Perf / Complex

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Vik said:
10hrs of dual with you? or just 10hrs dual total, as in he's not even a private pilot yet?

If he's already a private pilot, he needs to log PIC while flying the plane, and can't until you endorse him.

Either way -- your signature on that endorsement says, "Dear FAA, I certify that if this guy kills himself in this plane, that you will hunt down my ass and harass me for the rest of my life."

Don't sign it until you feel that he's ready to fly it as PIC. I can't even begin to imagine how much trouble I would have gotten myself into flying a 235HP airplane with only 10hrs under my belt. :)

Whatever you do, don't risk your ticket.
This ain't nothing new partner, many have gotten a private in airplanes bigger, faster, and more complex than this one.

Mesa's PDP has been using A-36's with the I0-550 300 HP since day 1 with 0 time pilots in the left seat.

No big deal at all..

3 5 0
 
350DRIVER said:
...Mesa's PDP has been using A-36's with the I0-550 300 HP since day 1 with 0 time pilots in the left seat.

No big deal at all..

3 5 0
I always wonder what goes through their mind when/if they hop into a 152...
 
mini, the funny thing is most of the guys never get into a GA aircraft after leaving the program unless they flunk out of training or don't pass the interview.

It's nuts to think that once they get their commercial they'll never see another SEL aircraft unless they want to!


~wheelsup
 
wheelsup said:
mini, the funny thing is most of the guys never get into a GA aircraft after leaving the program unless they flunk out of training or don't pass the interview.

It's nuts to think that once they get their commercial they'll never see another SEL aircraft unless they want to!


~wheelsup
I feel so bad for them...never having the "experience" of cramming into a 152 and religiously doing a W&B ten times, even though the numbers are always the same because you feel that maybe this tenth time it will tell you that you can actually have fuel on your flight today...but no, it's still the same...

I think flying a 152 or Citabria (or something similar) should be prerequisite for flying a transport category plane...but thats just me...

-mini
 
This is what I'd do; fly with him in the Dakota a few times. If it looks like he'd be able to handle it, I'd continue training with him in the Dakota. If it looks like it is too much airplane for him right then, I'd suggest to him that he park the Dakota until he has his private certificate. There's a pretty big difference between 10 hours and 50+ as far as flying skill goes. If he insisted that he fly the Dakota, I'd then explain to him that solo proficiency in the Dakota is going to require a bit more flight time, but I'd have no problem working with him during that time--just so it was known that it might take a while to solo.


-Goose
 
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Goose Egg said:
If it looks like it is too much airplane for him right then, I'd suggest to him that he park the Dakota until he has his private certificate.
Problem is that our local airport is uncontrolled and there is no longer a airplane for rent anywhere on the field (thus why he went and bought his own airplane).

So there's really no alternate to him flying this airplane in that given scenario.

I'm fairly confident though that this student is a cut-above most. He's very passionate about flying, wants to do it 4 and 5 times a week, and when I show him something he picks it up the first couple tries, and never forgets. In addition, he's very book-smart when it comes to studying and understanding things. I think if anyone, he'd be more then capable of handling and flying this airplane.
 
I really wouldn't worry about it.

Shaun mentioned the T-41. I know folks who are teaching in the civilian equivalent CE-R172 (Hawk XP) series with both the stock 195 and the un-derated 210 HP. I have a friend who, halfway through his training decided that he was going to buy a 182 and finish his training in that. Heck, I even know a guy who learned to fly in a CE-210! The original Katana had a constant speed prop and was still used as a primary trainer.

A Dakota isn't =that= complicated. Might require a little extra time since there are additional dials and levers, but the student will simply see that as normal within a very few sessions. I'm convinced that learning a complex or HP aircraft after the PPL is more about un-learning things you can get away with in the simpler airplane than about the high complexity of the new systems.
 
To qualify for 'Complex' the A/c must have a adjustable prop....retractable gear and flaps....the airplane needs all of those to be complex..
 
So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!

That must be why I got my complex in a Cessna 182RG!
 
User997 said:
So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!
Huh? I must've missed somehting.
 
cowl flaps do not equal "flaps"
Flaps are flaps. Arrows do not have cowl flaps but they do have flaps, constant speed prop, and retractable gear so they are complex.

I know a guy who half way through training bought a socata trinidad. I took a few hours to ajust to things but then it was what he was used to and really no different than a 152.
 
User997 said:
So you'll never get be able to get complex endorsement in any Piper "training" aircraft!

That must be why I got my complex in a Cessna 182RG!

...curious as to where you classify the almighty Piper Arrow...pretty sure most people put that in the Piper "training" aircraft category...
 
I own one

Yeah, Piper classifies the Arrow as a training a/c (as opposed to personal or business/professional).
 
My point about all Piper "training" aircraft, including the Arrow, is that none of them have electric flaps. Just the manual, use your arm strength to extend and retract type.

The Arrow is the closest thing to a complex with the constant speed prop and retract gear, but the flaps are still manual - no electric.

This by definition would not make them complex.
 
You don't need electric flaps, you just need flaps. The early Mooneys didn't have electric flaps either (or gear for that matter), but both the Mooneys and the Arrow are complex a/c by the regs.
 
Whiskey Tango said:
the regs say flaps it does not say how it is powered. An arrow in a complex aircraft. Maybe you should get out your NASA form
No kidding (shaking head)

I have always understood the complex to be electric flaps, and I remember my primary instructor very cleary stating that a Piper trainer would not qualify as a complex for the reason of the flaps.

As I re-read the appropriate FAR's you gentleman are correct.

My blind faith, and the law of primacy at it's best.
 
I had a student with 4 hours buy a cherokee 235. No biggie it's not that much faster than a 172 in cruise and its still a cherokee airframe manuevers wise and if he gets into trouble he can at least climb fast (forget it in a 152). I put his student pilot certificate # in the endorsment to cover my @ss and I have soloed him and his son no problem.
 
Whiskey Tango said:
law of primacy is strong. It sucks when find out your primary instructor is wrong about this or that.
Yea, especially when your the instructor now! I like to think that I do my homework, and keep current with the information required to teach, but every once in awhile one of these doozies pop up to confront me!
 

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