Strike Vote @ ASA...

[MELIT]

Fags

SKYWEST is kicking there self in the a$$ for buying you frickin babys.

 

[jstyle13]

Melit you tool.....I vote yes!

 

[Grassstrippilot]

Married, thinking about kids, five years at another carrier and about 9 months here (ASA). My vote....of course yes. Unfortunately, I think that it will take the threat of shutting down ATL ops to force management to stop playing games. Personally, I don't think that Delta or Skywest will let it come to that.

What amazes me though, is all the guys that I fly with that are still bending over backwards to get a flight out on time or do someone else's job. Fly the contract/ SOPs, do your job (not everyone else's), and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. People are always wary of even hinting at anything that even sounds like promoting a work slow-down. The fact is, if you flew the SOPs and didn't do everyone else's job, a "slow-down" in the operation is the natural result. By its very nature, it is almost built in. So, fly safe, do your job as outlined in the SOPs, if it's broke, write it up, fly the contract, and let the rest fall into place. If your still on time, great. If not, oh well. Make a note of why you'r late in case any question arises and sit back enjoy your coffee while you wait for the fueler, release, bags to be loaded, etc, etc, etc.

Don't even get me started on the guys that want to single engine taxi on very short taxi outs because the "money they'll save the company".

 

[Palerider957]

SKYWEST is kicking there self in the a$$ for buying you frickin babys.

So much the better. The Mormon cult in SLC had a chance to settle all of this and chose not to. They left idiots like Willie, and arrogant a$$es like Brian in charge, so the pain continues.A strike is not an insurgency, but all out nuclear war. If SKYW is tanked in the process, so much the better.

I'm not with ASA anymore, but I would LOVE to see the ASA group incinerate DAL, SKYW, and whoever else has contributed to their suffering the past several years.

Having said that, I'm not sure it's worth it to all of those with bills to pay---aww hell, a strike is years away anyway.

 

[CF34-3B1]

What the management pilots posting on this thread don't seem to get is the average line guy doesn't make 120k for sitting in an office 3 or 4 days a week.

We can replace our income selling cars or substitute teaching.

All their "state of the industry" "weak economy" messages of doom and gloom miss one basic point:

At the level of pay and work rules we have, WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TO LOSE!!

You push a group of pilots to the point where the job isn't worth doing and guess what? They wont do it anymore.

I'm one of the lucky ones, recently escaped from ASA to a far far better place, but if I were still on property FWIW:

Top 20% of the seniority list, 3 kids, house, 2 cars and a pet rabbit.

"HELL YES"

To all my friends fighting the good fight, be strong, good luck, give em hell.

 

["GO AROUND"]

What the management pilots posting on this thread don't seem to get is the average line guy doesn't make 120k for sitting in an office 3 or 4 days a week.

We can replace our income selling cars or substitute teaching.

All their "state of the industry" "weak economy" messages of doom and gloom miss one basic point:

At the level of pay and work rules we have, WE DON'T HAVE MUCH TO LOSE!!

You push a group of pilots to the point where the job isn't worth doing and guess what? They wont do it anymore.

I'm one of the lucky ones, recently escaped from ASA to a far far better place, but if I were still on property FWIW:

Top 20% of the seniority list, 3 kids, house, 2 cars and a pet rabbit.

"HELL YES"

To all my friends fighting the good fight, be strong, good luck, give em hell.

Exactly!

Congrats on getting out, I'm still tryin to make ASA a better place and get out at the same time.

 

[uncle_rico]

Married, thinking about kids, five years at another carrier and about 9 months here (ASA). My vote....of course yes. Unfortunately, I think that it will take the threat of shutting down ATL ops to force management to stop playing games. Personally, I don't think that Delta or Skywest will let it come to that.

What amazes me though, is all the guys that I fly with that are still bending over backwards to get a flight out on time or do someone else's job. Fly the contract/ SOPs, do your job (not everyone else's), and let the rest of the chips fall where they may. People are always wary of even hinting at anything that even sounds like promoting a work slow-down. The fact is, if you flew the SOPs and didn't do everyone else's job, a "slow-down" in the operation is the natural result. By its very nature, it is almost built in. So, fly safe, do your job as outlined in the SOPs, if it's broke, write it up, fly the contract, and let the rest fall into place. If your still on time, great. If not, oh well. Make a note of why you'r late in case any question arises and sit back enjoy your coffee while you wait for the fueler, release, bags to be loaded, etc, etc, etc.

Don't even get me started on the guys that want to single engine taxi on very short taxi outs because the "money they'll save the company".

dude when you get off PROBATION and have some EXPERIENCE under your wet wings give us a call.....until then gear up and shut up. I hope I get you in my right seat.

 

[MELIT]

Melit you tool.....I vote yes!

I hope they shut you down!

 

[Palerider957]

dude when you get off PROBATION and have some EXPERIENCE under your wet wings give us a call.....until then gear up and shut up. I hope I get you in my right seat.

Sigh. This is why I left the airlines entirely. Too many people with no balls and a complete proletariat mind set. As long as you have a solid percentage of "Uncle ricos" (which ASA does--as does every airline I suspect), you will always be easy prey for management.

You want to be a struggling working class bafoon forever, be my guest. Fellows like Uncle Rico will happily lead the way.

 

[Grassstrippilot]

dude when you get off PROBATION and have some EXPERIENCE under your wet wings give us a call.....until then gear up and shut up. I hope I get you in my right seat.

Excuse me, reread the post. Been in this industry long enough to not only have an educated opinion, but to voice one as well. Maybe you saw only the short time I've been at ASA and missed the reference of the 5 years put in at ACA. That five years included 3 domicile openings and closings, a contract negotiation, starting DCI operations, ending DCI operations, Bain bidding process, and a hostile take-over attempt by Ornstien, just to name a few.

Learn to read before you go spouting off at the mouth.

On the bright side, there are a lot of us ex-ACA guys on property with experience that won't easily be won over by ploys like this "One team, one vision" BS. We, unlike first time airline pilots who are infected with SJS, see it for what it is and are tired of management's BS. AS a result, I think that we will be much more likely to support a yes vote than new comers to the industry, probation or not, because we understand how the game is played and what will eventually motivate management to negotiate in good faith.

 

[scarlet]

Yes for me too---COME 3 YEARS----how long does it take to go over 30 sections??????? Stop with the 9-11 sh*t and the economy,,,we are making alot of money...and here again americans the CEOs and the Presidents of companies taking their share...

America--pay attention to France--it to will happen here one day when the American public gets tired of people like ASA magnmt, and it does not pay to go to work anymore....

Someone give Bush a BJ so we can impeach him too!!!! we have to start with someone and it might as well start with him.....Give ONe just ONE positive he has done!!! NOTHING!!!

 

[atrdriver]

dude when you get off PROBATION and have some EXPERIENCE under your wet wings give us a call.....until then gear up and shut up. I hope I get you in my right seat.

I'll bet you're just a JOY to fly with. It begs the question of what does scheduling do when you are on EVERY F/O's no fly list.

 

[NoPlaneNoGain]

Spouse, kids, house, and debt...

Previously, I was on the line with this.
Now...... I vote HELL YES!!!
This JOB is quickly becoming NOT worth it!

 

[AV8700]

He!! Yes!

 

[79%N1]

Spouse, kids, house, and debt...

Previously, I was on the line with this.
Now...... I vote HELL YES!!!
This JOB is quickly becoming NOT worth it!

Exactly. This job is NOT worth it any longer. I like to fly, and like the job as pilot, but this is rediculous! And, Im telling all ASA pilots that the fun is just beginning. SKYW is going to start the whipsaw game and I can see no growth and loss of pay and benefits coming our way! That said, this is no longer worth it. If ASA is the one airline that stands up and says enough is enough and it ultimately means our demise, then so be it. The airlines are pi$$ poorly run from top to bottom at all levels. Why do we continually pay the price for this ineptitude? Maybe ASA will cut our own throats, but OK. Like previosly said over and over, most of us can easily replace this income and improve our personal QOL! We are fighting to improve these things at a job we all love, but the time has come to stand up and say without these improvements we would all be better off doing something else.....

6 years in 121 airlines.....
1 mortgage on single income
1 HELL YES VOTE TO STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sioux115]

A good book to read to see just what type of compensation your CEO's make on the backs of their employees and the american tax payer is called Perfectly Legal by David Cay Johnston. It puts the labor and mgt. earnings into perspective and maybe give you more incentive to fight for what you deserve!

 

[viper01]

yes.yes.yes

 

[atlcrjdriver]

As it comes to strike authorization, I vote Yes. If what the MEC says is true and the company hasn't even done the cost analysis of a new contract after all this time something is really wrong and needs to be addressed. Hopefully after the authorization is approved the guys in Utah will finish cleaning up the GO and give us a fair contract. QOL improvements and maybe profit sharing would be sufficient for me.

As far as flying strictly by the SPs to drive the point home, yes to a point. The passengers should not have to pay the price for our in-house dog fight. We are, or should be, all professionals here and must perform as professionals. Don't write up every screw that is loose or piss stain on the toilet seat.

If the boys at DL strike, we all will be passing out carts at wal-mart anyway..

Fly Safe...

 

["GO AROUND"]

One of my biggest questions is, where is the companies response to all of this? The answer is, nothing! Other than "One Team, One Vision". If they had any intention of good faith or professionalism they would be answering with something other than the inadequate ones as yet.

Just waiting for managment to get the fact that the pilots see only an inept managment "Team" and "Vision".

 

[atlcrashpad]

Us Vs. Them

Management is not going to respond unless the bottom line is their necks on the line. As long as the company makes money and Big "D" is satisfied (Good Lord DAL is bending their own labor over right now) then MGT will do Nothing, Nada, Zip.

I used to complain to my better half about MGT continually violating the contract. How can they get away with it? She (Exec in Large Development Corp) said "We do it all the time" example: Real Estate development clear cut a massive amount of acreage (sp) to build a large upscale neighborhood. They recieved a fine from the county for destroying woodlands. Fine was $40,000... nothing, they made 20 Million in sales in less than a year.

It boils down to the "Almighty $ Dollar". If the Prez of the company or any VP is going to loose their jobs, you bet they will be negotiating.

 

[outtahere]

The time has come, it will be hard for everyone, but unless you came to ASA with 300 hours, you had to struggle to get to this point, and this is no different. Just like landing your first or second airline job, this takes determination and sacrifice. I am married, two kids, one on the way, Wife will be out of work for the next year, and I vote a very loud YES!!!

 

[MELIT]

The time has come, it will be hard for everyone, but unless you came to ASA with 300 hours, you had to struggle to get to this point, and this is no different. Just like landing your first or second airline job, this takes determination and sacrifice. I am married, two kids, one on the way, Wife will be out of work for the next year, and I vote a very loud YES!!!

You should strike. This way ASA will fail to exist and there will be more flying for me in a new shiny jet!

 

[scarlet]

making 30k WOW--you can have it--for 30k---F.O. that is
away from family 3-4nights a week-- making about F.O.$18-30.00 per hour for captains: it works out to be for a 40 hour work week...for normal job, home everyday no union - oh no the pass priviledges will be gone--they are already going--

 

[Redan]

Ladies and Gents,

This thread displays the real deal. This is important stuff for us now.

A few additional observations:

Posters such as this "Melit" have no stake in our situation and are simply throwing fuel on the flames. Their comments are not worthy of a response and it is a waste of our energy to do so. Posters such as “Uncle Rico” aren’t much better. I feel it is unlikely this person is an ASA line pilot. If he is, I find it disturbing to note his negativism and lack of understanding of our issues. Of greater concern is the rash jumping to conclusions without taking into account all available information, and then spitting out a belligerent post. Combined with the unprofessional attitude displayed in the reply to the very insightful post of “Grassstrippilot” and I feel we’re looking at a safety issue. When I encounter another pilot with an attitude problem I quickly make it very clear this will not be tolerated on the flight deck. I would encourage my fellow pilots, no matter how junior, to do the same. You do not have to put up with it; a stress filled cockpit is not safe.

On examining the history of labor relations in the US, it becomes clear that few companies get a union unless it is richly deserved. Even then, it is seldom easy to win a union drive. Unfortunately, so often management concludes the employees are an enemy rather than an asset. Companies will often go to any length and expense to subvert labor, particularly organized labor. To the typically myopic view of management, there is little incentive for employee concern. Often management will expend vast amounts of resources and energy in their anti-labor efforts. Usually this is at the great expense of numerous other issues which merit attention and would be much more beneficial to the business if addressed. These battles with labor often become something like a personal vendetta and have done enormous damage to countless companies destroying any and all good will. Almost universally, management is so out of touch with their employees that they actually feel their actions are justified. And regrettably, labor is an easy target, much easier for management to attack than focusing on other fundamental aspects of the business. We’ve all seen it: management has easy access to the public ear. They are able to put on whatever spin they desire (with the aid of their high priced anti-labor law firm) and they can “cook” the books somewhat to “prove” their point. Additionally, it is simply just more desirable to come up with a black and white, in print “cost reduction” there for everyone to see.

Hence, we see why there are numerous firms in the US specializing in “labor relations.” These folks have a book of recipes to follow in attempts to thwart labor. The efforts of companies to subdue labor are mapped out for them by these firms...while generating huge billing for them. As far as airlines go, the pattern has become so predictable it’s almost boring. Labor groups are played against each other. Doomsday scenarios are spun that require labor to give back (to compensate for management’s mistakes if truth be told). The trend is not just to prevent any gains by labor, but to chip away at what labor already has i.e. reinterpretation/renegotiation of existing good faith agreements. The most common tactics: doom and gloom, divide and conquer. Every effort is made to circumvent the unity of the pilot group. And the sad result, the pilot group almost always caves in. They are their own worst enemy. A close to home example, many counseled the Comair pilots to reject the LOA by management last January. I’ll bet they wished they had listened.

The here and now: Like it or not, this is the situation the ASA pilots are facing. We don’t want it, but our hand is forced. There are many examples of modern management which recognizes employee value and the benefits of everyone playing on the same team, Jet Blue and Southwest are notable for this. Unfortunately, ASA has always been managed with the archaic old school myopic style of decades ago. Some of the dinosaurs have been run out of town, but for the most part the players haven’t changed much. Hence we have to work it the old fashioned way, we simply have no choice.

ASA pilots are a great bunch of folks. We want to be team players. We want be on time, to save gas, to satisfy customers, to make money for our company. Pilots are problem solvers who relish a challenge. But our management (and their expensive law firm) know this well. They have us pegged. They can read us like a book. They can and do use these fine qualities against us...to manipulate us. They know we will play along. We’ll use our cell phone (unreimbursed), we’ll do everyone else’s job to get out on time. And apparently, (they hope) here in soon to be 2006, we’ll be satisfied with a mid 1990’s contract. I, for one, have noticed a bit of an increase in the cost of living since the mid 1990’s.

The greatest asset we have is our unity. If we are unable to demonstrate tremendous unity we have lost. In the science of “labor relations” the primary objective is to destroy unity through any means necessary...any means. Stand by for management to do or say anything to this end. There will be attempts to play one labor group against the other (really, we should be allot more unified with our FAs). Threats up to and including the dissolution of ASA will come. These will be creative and will sound valid. But the pilot group must not be fazed. It is all just part of the game...and it is a game. Rather than cave in, we have to call their bluff. Throw it right back in their face aggressively. The ASA pilots have to learn from history. We must play the game more tactfully than our predecessors. We have to play like the first string, like we’re smart and know what we’re doing...not like a bench warmer coming in for the first time. We cannot forget that any truly valid threats levied by our management will come to pass regardless. If we are told we have to settle for a substandard contract or the company will close, the company is going to be closed anyway no matter what we do. The bottom line: if we remain unified no matter what happens, we will prevail. If we force our management to deal with us, they will deal with us. We must provide the incentive because they have none.

Obviously, I will provide a yes vote with relish. I realize our management is simply doing business the way they believe business should be done. This means we have to deal with them through the few means at our disposal. I refuse to be a party to any further erosion of our career. We truly don’t have much to lose. Someone observed to me recently how nice it was that so many of us are able to have a second job. I replied: “Yes, but the sad thing is that most of us with a second job couldn’t get by without it.”

 

[601Pilot]

I vote yes and about d@mn time!

 

[Sinca3]

Nicely put Redan!! This should be posted all through ops for people to read.
YES vote from me........

 

[Gorditas]

Redan,

Excellent post, I am in total agreement. What I don't understand are the people who are so worried about keeping what we currently have. They are like women who stay with their abusive husbands and keep going back for more beatings. I am tired of the beatings, and it is time to take action!

Count one more emphatic YES!

Hey Brian LePuke, get it together or get packing!

 

[rjcap]

Yes !!

 

[jehtplane]

Yes !!

Uh he11 yes.....

 

[RegionalERPuke]

Late 20's, Got hired with more than 300 hours, 1 wife, house payment, college debt, and I support my MEC.

Yes