Stealth Age 67 to 70

[Dan Roman]

Of course. It's always someone else's fault.

uke:

Not sure how you can equate someone having their retirement savings stolen from them when they are in their fifties and not having the time to save enough in an IRA or 401k for a decent retirement with the equivalent of someone not taking personal responsibility for their situation.
I'm blown away at the anti age 65 people that seem unable to recognize that reality.
The pilots flying past 60 today are pilots that lost their retirement through absolutely no fault of their own. Period. The simple fact is being an airline pilot no longer includes the DB plans most used to enjoy. The playing field changed for everyone and its now a DC option for most. For the younger pilots it can mean huge lump sum when they retire, for the older pilots they don't have that luxury, they are the ones getting the short end of the stick on this deal. Not the young ones who have time on their side to save.

 

[EWR_FO]

Not sure how you can equate someone having their retirement savings stolen from them when they are in their fifties and not having the time to save enough in an IRA or 401k for a decent retirement with the equivalent of someone not taking personal responsibility for their situation.
I'm blown away at the anti age 65 people that seem unable to recognize that reality.
The pilots flying past 60 today are pilots that lost their retirement through absolutely no fault of their own. Period. The simple fact is being an airline pilot no longer includes the DB plans most used to enjoy. The playing field changed for everyone and its now a DC option for most. For the younger pilots it can mean huge lump sum when they retire, for the older pilots they don't have that luxury, they are the ones getting the short end of the stick on this deal. Not the young ones who have time on their side to save.

This whole change was ramrodded through by a SW pilot who has not lost a nickel. One of the CAL guys that was instrumental in helping change the rule was ALREADY sixty when the rule passed and hiding out in the training department. He went back to the line and fed for another five years. He turns sixty five next month and guess where he's headed? BACK to the training department to hope for another change.

If you are denying that greed played a huge part you are mistaken.

 

[list2002]

Agree with above. But everyone has their unique circumstances. The majority of guys sticking around past 60 do not seem to have any problems financially, but what do I know. They mostly just seem to have no where else to go or thing to do. What I have learned by past examples and mentorship from said people is to not give a fugh. Get what you can if, when and while you can. Ideals and a pilot "brotherhood" are pipe dreams to distract the ones who get fleeced. And to say this young generation of pilots are all too "entitled" only shows more of who's to blame. They are the boomers children for the most part, and if not they are mentored by the actions of the boomers in the positions they one day will hope to achieve. See how quickly I learned? It's not even my fault anymore.

 

[Quimby]

Not sure how you can equate someone having their retirement savings stolen from them when they are in their fifties and not having the time to save enough in an IRA or 401k for a decent retirement with the equivalent of someone not taking personal responsibility for their situation.
I'm blown away at the anti age 65 people that seem unable to recognize that reality.
The pilots flying past 60 today are pilots that lost their retirement through absolutely no fault of their own. Period. The simple fact is being an airline pilot no longer includes the DB plans most used to enjoy. The playing field changed for everyone and its now a DC option for most. For the younger pilots it can mean huge lump sum when they retire, for the older pilots they don't have that luxury, they are the ones getting the short end of the stick on this deal. Not the young ones who have time on their side to save.

Having retirements slashed or stolen sucks. No one is denying that. However, at the end of a 25/30/35 year airline career, if you don't have a bunch of money put away, you've been a fool.

 

[flyboyike]

Having retirements slashed or stolen sucks. No one is denying that. However, at the end of a 25/30/35 year airline career, if you don't have a bunch of money put away, you've been a fool.

Amen.

 

[Ralph Wiggums]

Having retirements slashed or stolen sucks. No one is denying that. However, at the end of a 25/30/35 year airline career, if you don't have a bunch of money put away, you've been a fool.

Amen.

Double amen.

 

[Mamma]

I'm blown away at the anti age 65 people that seem unable to recognize that reality.
The pilots flying past 60 today are pilots that lost their retirement through absolutely no fault of their own. Period. The simple fact is being an airline pilot no longer includes the DB plans most used to enjoy.

Dan, you might not have your facts straight. UPS, FedEx, Southwest a d Alaska pilots still have pensions or a generous retirement plan (SWA). Funny thing is, the majority of these rich pilots are not retiring at 60. Very few pilots have hung it up at Alaska at 60 and they have full pension plans, filled IRAs, 401s and many other investments. What they have told me is basically they want more. So, really it's not the sob story you make it out to be in many cases. Maybe a little bit of truth on both sides.

 

[Jim]

Actually, if airline pilot central's figures are correct, Dan and the rest of us at Hawaiian have a better plan than SWA. Plus SWA never did have a pension.

Dan is not talking about his situation but the situation at the mjority of the legacy airlines. UPS and FedEx (at least according to the NMB during our last negotiations) are in a different category.

I don't like age 65 and didn't want it. But it's their job and their decision when to retire.

 

[vetrider]

This whole change was ramrodded through by a SW pilot who has not lost a nickel. One of the CAL guys that was instrumental in helping change the rule was ALREADY sixty when the rule passed and hiding out in the training department. He went back to the line and fed for another five years. He turns sixty five next month and guess where he's headed? BACK to the training department to hope for another change.

If you are denying that greed played a huge part you are mistaken.

I ran across a SWA FO who looked well over 60. It turned out he was also already 60 when the rule changed and he went back on the line as an FO. Industry wide, I wonder how many guys did the same? I can't imagine it would be that many.

 

[Mamma]

Actually, if airline pilot central's figures are correct, Dan and the rest of us at Hawaiian have a better plan than SWA. Plus SWA never did have a pension.

Dan is not talking about his situation but the situation at the mjority of the legacy airlines. UPS and FedEx (at least according to the NMB during our last negotiations) are in a different category.

I don't like age 65 and didn't want it. But it's their job and their decision when to retire.

Sure. But, Dan used the word "Period." He used it in reference to his supposed fact that all pilots are flying to age 65 because they had their pensions taken. That is far from the case. While it is true some are flying later because of their ruined financial situations, many are flying because they do not have a financial plan and have no idea how much they need; many are flying because they are tools and cannot define themselves outside of being a pilot; many started late in life with kids and have them in college; 3 wives each taking their share, and many are staying because they love it. There are many reasons but I am not going to narrow it all down to the sob story of the lost pension. I just flew with one guy over 60 and he said he cannot make his yacht payment if he retires. Whatever. Everyone has the right and the choice to make their decision on when to retire.