Spirit to hire directly from ERAU?

[plunger]

I'd bet Spirit won't hire a 1200 CFI off the street or even a 1500 hr RJ FO but will hire a 250 hr pilot from riddle. Doesnt makes sense. Why even "test" a program like this when there is a large number of regional FO's that would go to Spirit? At least they have jet time and 121 experience.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

I don't think they're going to hire any more of those 250 hr guys until they see how this experiment goes. Where did you see that they're domestic only? I didn't see that.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Have you looked at regional pay lately?
Mesa is higher paying (or the same) as many regionals. Funny how we mock the pilots who go to a regional but condemn the pilots who want to skip regionals and come directly to Spirit.


Look at these 5 year capt payscales.

Horizon - (CRJ700) $80
Republic - (Many) $77, $70, $67, $60
American Eagle - (many aircraft) $73, $69, $66
Skywest - (CRJ900/200 vs. CRJ-200) $69, $66
ASA -(CRJ700 vs. CRJ200/ATR72) $69, $66
PSA - (CRJ700 and CRJ200) $68
Mesa – (CRJ900, CRJ700, CRJ/ERJ145) $69, $64, $61
Compass - (E175) $69
Expressjet - (ERJ145 vs ERJ135) $69, $61
Air Wisconsin -(CRJ200) $66
Gojet - (CRJ700) $66
Mesaba - (CRJ900 vs CRJ200) $66, $62
Pinnacle - (CRJ-200) $62
Tran States - (E-145) $62
Comair -(CRJ700 vs CRJ200) $66, $63

Comair was forced down to mesa level

 

[Beetle007]

Comair was forced down to mesa level

I agree. Just like the legacies were forced down to the LCC level.

Unfortunately our wages have become largely governed by supply and demand of pilots. If we ever want to raise wages, I honestly think unions will need to convince the FAA to raise pilot requirements. The only other way to reduce the supply of pilots is to decreased wages (which none of us want).

Unfortunately, the FAA is headed in the opposite direction. Under the new Multi Crew pilots license pilots will be able to be hired as a First Officer on a part 121 jet with about 70 hours of flight time (which includes about 10 hours of solo and 12 takeoffs/landings).

http://www.flttechonline.com/Current/Alteon Training Testing ICAO Multi-Crew Pilot License.htm

 

[Smoothstu]

The Future

Sounds to me as if many of these posts are more about complaining that they didn't get that kind of deal; so it must be unsafe!

The airlines are having a difficult time with finding qualified pilots to hire and keep. Most new hires are just looking for the next best thing and have no desire to have a long term career with a LCC.

The fact is that hiring low time guys/girls is not new to this industry. Many European companies have direct tracks to big jets and you can take a look at the US Legacy's who have in fact hired pilots that still needed to finish their commercial license. Given that this was the 1960's, but the problem was the same; airlines are having a huge retention problem and a smaller qualified hiring pool.

ICAO has even addressed this shortage of qualified pilots with the development of the Multi-Crew License MCL, which which will shorten the time requirement to go from 0 to Jet FO with specific training.

Some of the posts bring up safety. Sounds like you are referring to the image of safety and not actual safety at all. These pilots will be required to go through the same training and checking, and will actually be highly scrutinized based on their previous experience. I believe that these young pilots will actually progress well into Captains, as they will only know the Spirit way and the Airbus aircraft. They may not have paid their dues in the 135/Regional world, but they will be paying them flying as FO's longer then most. So instead of being against them being hired, you should be looking forward to the opportunity of helping them learn what they need to learn!

As for your RJ buddies that can't get an interview or hired; What makes them different then the other RJ applicants? The fact is that the regionals pilots of today are flying new equipment with ATC hand holding, Dispatch hand holding and MX control hand holding; not much "Real World" experience being gained.

Just my opinion!

 

[Shrek]

Sounds to me as if many of these posts are more about complaining that they didn't get that kind of deal; so it must be unsafe!

The airlines are having a difficult time with finding qualified pilots to hire and keep. Most new hires are just looking for the next best thing and have no desire to have a long term career with a LCC.

The fact is that hiring low time guys/girls is not new to this industry. Many European companies have direct tracks to big jets and you can take a look at the US Legacy's who have in fact hired pilots that still needed to finish their commercial license. Given that this was the 1960's, but the problem was the same; airlines are having a huge retention problem and a smaller qualified hiring pool.

ICAO has even addressed this shortage of qualified pilots with the development of the Multi-Crew License MCL, which which will shorten the time requirement to go from 0 to Jet FO with specific training.

Some of the posts bring up safety. Sounds like you are referring to the image of safety and not actual safety at all. These pilots will be required to go through the same training and checking, and will actually be highly scrutinized based on their previous experience. I believe that these young pilots will actually progress well into Captains, as they will only know the Spirit way and the Airbus aircraft. They may not have paid their dues in the 135/Regional world, but they will be paying them flying as FO's longer then most. So instead of being against them being hired, you should be looking forward to the opportunity of helping them learn what they need to learn!

As for your RJ buddies that can't get an interview or hired; What makes them different then the other RJ applicants? The fact is that the regionals pilots of today are flying new equipment with ATC hand holding, Dispatch hand holding and MX control hand holding; not much "Real World" experience being gained.

Just my opinion!

Please don't tell me you are for MPL...........!!!!!!!!!

 

[Beetle007]

SmoothStu,

3500 hrs and you have a 747 type rating? How many hours did you have when you first started flying the 747?

 

[Cpt Oveur]

Smoothstu has a point. If they go through the same training and checkrides, and endure even more scrutiny, at what point would you treat them as equals? Regionals are hiring pilots with just as low time. Point being, at some point they'll have to make a jump from flying a saab or erj in radar environment to an a319 flying to south american or carribbean. I'm not for MPL but I can't ignore the fact that the way the US hires pilots isn't the only way that works. Ab initio programs are coming, and it is a better deal that many of us had it.

 

[:-)]

Smoothstu has a point. If they go through the same training and checkrides, and endure even more scrutiny, at what point would you treat them as equals? Regionals are hiring pilots with just as low time. Point being, at some point they'll have to make a jump from flying a saab or erj in radar environment to an a319 flying to south american or carribbean. I'm not for MPL but I can't ignore the fact that the way the US hires pilots isn't the only way that works. Ab initio programs are coming, and it is a better deal that many of us had it.

I wouldn't start treating a 400 hour CFI as equals until they had enough experience to be my equal.

If their experience level doesn't allow me to rely on their advice, I can't treat them as an equal. big jet flying techniques could be instilled in a monkey, but knowing how to deal with life passing you by at 8 miles a minute takes just a teensy bit more (insert sarcasm).

On the flip side, I'll be happy to pass along my experience if their attitude is right.

 

[Mike man]

Comair was forced down to mesa level

But the work rules started out the same...but it was a huge hourly rate!

 

[FLYBOYMATTHEW]

What's the magic number? How many hours are required before someone can call themselves an "experienced airline pilot"?

 

[Cpt Oveur]

What's the magic number? How many hours are required before someone can call themselves an "experienced airline pilot"?

Exactly. Or how about how many hours before you are an equal to someone who was hired in a class before you? I don't know, but the day I think I know it all when it comes to flying, I don't want to fly.

 

[lindsaya99]

What's the magic number? How many hours are required before someone can call themselves an "experienced airline pilot"?

5001.5

 

[Flyinhi]

What's the magic number? How many hours are required before someone can call themselves an "experienced airline pilot"?

It's not hours, just 30 minutes with a FA and then you can call your self an "experienced airline pilot".

 

[Mr Wu]

It's not hours, just 30 minutes with a FA and then you can call your self an "experienced airline pilot".

Is that time cumulative?

 

[The_Russian]

Gearthrower, gatorbird, great posts.

Much respect, yo.

 

[FDAFCFI]

The ab initio program will be the only way these airlines can fill their pilot pools in the future since all the pundits say the schools are being stripped of CFIs. i don't really think that's totally true but how could I know...its just my opinion.

Gatorbird is correct about the judgment issues. Put a low time FO with 250 hours into the right seat and forget about systems knowledge...just the pure overwhelming environment on the radio is enough to make day one of IOE unbearable. I had a good IOE experience, namely because we have IOE captains who are used to hiring minimums around 1000 total and 100 multi, the majority of that time being spent flying cross country. I remember how overwhelming changing frequencies five times before departure seemed to me on day one.

I think coupling that with a larger plane and the busyness of a large airport and you've got immediate judgment problems. If the captain starts doing something inane, the FO is not going to say anything. And then it begins...

I've got no problem with ab initio programs, but they should be taught from day one by former airline pilots, not 1000 hour 25 year old Seminole "studs". The whole mindset should be centered around the airline world, not how to become a CFI, not types of AXE body spray to wear, or what type of small electronic device fits well on the lower pedestal so that the crew can watch Jackass, the movie. The military has done this for years and its been successful. But they get guys after what, a private license, maybe an instrument license?

I live in Corpus Christi and run into a boat load of new military recruits every month who walk around the bar with t-shirts that say "Don't tell your mom I'm an aviator". Its embarrassing to watch this. Its the same type-A new hire fascination new FOs exhibit at regional A or B. You do, however, see the transformation of attitudes at the end when 5% of them go to the F-18 and the rest fly the Cod or the P-3 or Helos if they are just truly awful pilots (don't get that one). I tend to be of the opinion that its the discipline that makes or breaks these guys.

If airlines enact ab initio programs that are centered around discipline and a strict course of study that washes out pilots just like the military, then the system will work and new FOs will be looked upon as better prepared. Bringing in 250 hour $125,000 in debt doe-eyed pilots is just madness. Its just too much for them on day one of IOE. Just my opinion. I mean no disrespect.