Spirit to hire directly from ERAU?

[The_Russian]

Whats the deal with this? I heard Spirit is going to hire pilots directly from ERAU with 250 hours or less in their book. Are they looking to destroy the current level of safety at the airline, or are they trying to find guys who will break the contract to benefit the company?

 

[motch]

find guys who will break the contract to benefit the company

I've said this before...
ALPA needs to go to Flight Schools and Colleges and talk to the next generation of Airline Pilots.

Hopefully as long as you have Captains with time on the aircraft and something greater than ATP mins sitting in the left seat, safety may not compromised to much... hopefully!!

Always~

 

[1031Guy]

That's funny! Have you ever had an emergency??? Things can get pretty busy real quick. Adding fuel to the fire by having an F/O who can only program the computer to go from A to B and nothing else because he has no experience.

 

[Way2Broke]

Its not new news... this has been going on for at least two months. That was when I spoke with a woman with a fresh multi comm from ERAU that had been offered a position.

 

[huncowboy]

That's funny! Have you ever had an emergency??? Things can get pretty busy real quick. Adding fuel to the fire by having an F/O who can only program the computer to go from A to B and nothing else because he has no experience.

Sounds just like the regionals to me. Except I surely did not know how to properly program the computer when I hit the line first.

 

[Princedietrich]

I think I'll be taking the bus from now on.

 

[lionflyer]

Spirit wants cheap labor, nothing more. Any chimp can "program" the Airbus. God help the poor capt that has to deal with an emergency single pilot. It's one thing when the regionals are hiring low timers because they can't find anyone else, but Spirit has plenty of more than qualified applicants.

 

[treefifeniner]

If I was a Captain at Spirit, I'd be slightly irate. Nothing like being forced to flight instruct all over again!

 

[ualdriver]

Whats the deal with this? I heard Spirit is going to hire pilots directly from ERAU with 250 hours or less in their book. Are they looking to destroy the current level of safety at the airline, or are they trying to find guys who will break the contract to benefit the company?

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/080130/135197.html

Looks like JetBlue is starting some sort of bridge program as well with ERAU, UND, and Cape Air.



JetBlue Announces Aviation University Gateway Program for Pilot Candidates
Wednesday January 30, 10:00 am ET
Airline Partners With Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, University of North Dakota, and Cape Air to Fill Pilot Pipeline
NEW YORK, Jan. 30, 2008 (PRIME NEWSWIRE) -- Award-winning JetBlue Airways (NasdaqGS:JBLU - News) today announces the creation of the Aviation University Gateway, a career-planning and mentoring program designed to identify and recruit talented men and women into the professional pilot ranks. Through rigorous academic training and regional airline experience, the Aviation University Gateway creates a clearly defined career path for aspiring pilots, beginning early in an aviator's college career and culminating in the possibility of a final interview at a major airline.

 

[BoilerUP]

So how much do folks pay for the shot at a Spirit job?

 

[Mike man]

Here is what I have heard about the program...(I am not defending it, just giving information).

* It is a very experimental pilot program and the success of the 6 currently in training will determine the future of the program.

* The F/O's must complete 50 hours of IOE and 25 landings.

* Once online they will have an F/O "line check" so to speak where they will either get a "line check" or fly with an IOE CA monthly (or quarterly)--as yet to be determined.

* Each CA they fly with will (or may be required to) submit an evaluation--as yet to be determined.

* At the end of the one year probationary period will be required to pass a probationary PC.

In the words of Dean [SIZE=-1]Vernon Wormer of Faber College, "[/SIZE]Well, as of this moment, they're on DOUBLE SECRET PROBATION!"

 

[gatorbird]

Mike O. was right on. From the CP's mouth, this is a see-how-it-goes-just-in-case-we-need-it program. He spoke of the possibility of a pilot shortage in a few years; I'm not sure he was convinced of this as he was speaking, though.

Here's my take of it, if it matters. Our DO is a Riddle grad and supposedly sits on some board there. This is a way for him to throw a bone back the ole alma mater's way. If, by some chance, there is a shortage of pilots in the coming years, then he looks really smart and is heralded for spearheading the project. If it doesn't, it goes away and ERAU still gets the "Jeff Carlson Honorary Hall".

This will probably fail one of two ways: the most likely is one of these guys/gals will open their mouth too much and poop will fall out; the other is a situational awareness/possible safety concern will happen somewhere and they'll have to shelve the program.

Hey, these guys are in class as of last Monday. Not many, but some of them are here. The best thing NK pilots can do is educate these guys, not isolate them. The most assured way to make them management-friendly is make them feel threatened by the pilot group. We don't have to like the fact that they are here, but life ain't fair. You want to place blame, place it with the FAA. They're the ones who say these guys are qualified to be a 121 SIC on an Airbus.

gator

 

[greyskyracer]

This will probably fail one of two ways: the most likely is one of these guys/gals will open their mouth too much and poop will fall out; the other is a situational awareness/possible safety concern will happen somewhere and they'll have to shelve the program.

Hey, these guys are in class as of last Monday. Not many, but some of them are here. The best thing NK pilots can do is educate these guys, not isolate them. The most assured way to make them management-friendly is make them feel threatened by the pilot group. We don't have to like the fact that they are here, but life ain't fair. You want to place blame, place it with the FAA. They're the ones who say these guys are qualified to be a 121 SIC on an Airbus.

gator

Are the guys that are in class right now fresh from riddle or did they do the required time at cape air?

Is Jet Blue still looking down upon turbo-prop guys?

thanks in advance

 

[mvedepo]

Its not new news... this has been going on for at least two months. That was when I spoke with a woman with a fresh multi comm from ERAU that had been offered a position.

Might as well start offering single pilot types in the bus.

 

[jke406]

The whole reason for pursuing this has got to be to hire someone without any PIC time, therefore making it impossible for the youngster to jump ship to another carrier in a few months/years.

They've found a way to eliminate attrition to the major carriers.

The "lucky" kids need to be educated on how un-marketable they will be outside of Spirit without any PIC experience.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Quite unreal, except that it's real. Friend of mine has been there about nine months and he was hired with 8k TT, 6k multi, 4k turbojet and 2k turbojet PIC. And he was sending resumes to multiple carriers hoping for a bite. Everyone in his class had multi turbojet PIC. Big change in less than one year.

Mr. I.

 

[Beetle007]

The "lucky" kids need to be educated on how un-marketable they will be outside of Spirit without any PIC experience.

Legacies are hiring people without much PIC. Some don't require any jet PIC. I just had a friend get hired at a Legacy with 1700 total and 0 jet PIC.

Legacy airlines also have these types of programs (internships, internal hires, etc). I know people hired this year at legacy airlines with less than 500 total time.

 

[Draginass]

Management doesn't care. All they care is filling the seat with the cheapest, most compliant, and naive person possible . . . . with of course, the bleat that the beginner pilots are certified by the FAA.

Management merely transfers the danger to the Captain who has to compensate for failings of inexperienced copilot. He's, in effect, at best, forced to act as an instructor, and at worst, just fly the airplane solo.

As long as Spirit captains put up with this, they get exactly what they deserve.

 

[gatorbird]

As long as Spirit captains put up with this, they get exactly what they deserve.

And just what is it that Spirit captains deserve? If these guys come to work and do their job, with no unusual circumstances arising, what are our captains supposed to do? Go cry to the CP that it isn't fair? I mean, the bus isn't hard to operate given nothing unusual happens. Heck, I've seen some of the most experienced pilots make mistakes/get overloaded at times.

What would you do, Captain Draginass, if you went to work tomorrow and your employer announced plans to do the same? Slam your manuals down and walk away?

Don't try to put this burden on the pilot group; most here are just like anybody else--they want to come to work, get paid for it, and go home and live their lives.

gator

 

[ackattacker]

Whats the deal with this? I heard Spirit is going to hire pilots directly from ERAU with 250 hours or less in their book. Are they looking to destroy the current level of safety at the airline, or are they trying to find guys who will break the contract to benefit the company?

Now that you don't "work" at Gulfstream anymore I suppose this isn't hypocrisy.

 

[Gearthrower]

I would be more worried if and when they become a Captain. Not ever having the luxury of making mistakes when you are the only one affected. Books can only teach so much; life usually takes care of the rest of the education.

 

[Mr. Irrelevant]

Legacies are hiring people without much PIC. Some don't require any jet PIC. I just had a friend get hired at a Legacy with 1700 total and 0 jet PIC.

Legacy airlines also have these types of programs (internships, internal hires, etc). I know people hired this year at legacy airlines with less than 500 total time.

1700??? Uh, who and where? And what was their connection? or "background"? I know people with less than 1000 PIC TJ time getting interviews once they upgrade to RJ PIC, however they don't get the interview until they've made Captain. First I've heard of an FO getting hired. Unless your friend is female....

Mr. I.

 

[Beetle007]

1700??? Uh, who and where? And what was their connection? or "background"?
Mr. I.

I don't want to say who or where but he was a widebody first officer before he went to the legacy and he did have connections. My only point was that Airlines prefer PIC time but don't require much (if any).

Of course, the only way he made connections was by impressing the right people. No family members or anything.

 

[Taco1]

This is not a big surprise. Airlines around the world have been doing this for years. Many foreigners come here get all their ratings and around 300 hours of flight time, go to airbus training in France and are co-pilots on A-320 all the way up to A-340. You don't hear them crashing everyday!!!

You become the company monkey very early in your career. You learn to fly the way they want you to and you have no bad habits they need to worry about. The captains will have there hands full for a year but after that hopefully they can find the autopilot button and ramp frequency.

 

[MINIME]

deleted

 

[Bighorn]

Mike O. was right on. From the CP's mouth, this is a see-how-it-goes-just-in-case-we-need-it program. He spoke of the possibility of a pilot shortage in a few years; I'm not sure he was convinced of this as he was speaking, though.

Here's my take of it, if it matters. Our DO is a Riddle grad and supposedly sits on some board there. This is a way for him to throw a bone back the ole alma mater's way. If, by some chance, there is a shortage of pilots in the coming years, then he looks really smart and is heralded for spearheading the project. If it doesn't, it goes away and ERAU still gets the "Jeff Carlson Honorary Hall".

This will probably fail one of two ways: the most likely is one of these guys/gals will open their mouth too much and poop will fall out; the other is a situational awareness/possible safety concern will happen somewhere and they'll have to shelve the program.

Hey, these guys are in class as of last Monday. Not many, but some of them are here. The best thing NK pilots can do is educate these guys, not isolate them. The most assured way to make them management-friendly is make them feel threatened by the pilot group. We don't have to like the fact that they are here, but life ain't fair. You want to place blame, place it with the FAA. They're the ones who say these guys are qualified to be a 121 SIC on an Airbus.

gator

Thanks for the info. What I have heard from line drivers is they cut the bases to eliminate hotel costs. Get rid of the parking in DTW and come up with no alternative plan. The Union could care less apparently they have said nothing. Morale is spiraling towards the ground. They cut costs on the backs of their employees and are going to try and ram pref bid down the throats of the pilots. But yet they will spend money on giving some 300 hour wonder an extra 30 hours of OE that you wouldn't have to give anyone else in theory. Extra Sim time etc.... Things are getting worse.

 

[The_Russian]

Now that you don't "work" at Gulfstream anymore I suppose this isn't hypocrisy.

No, not at all. There are clear differences between Spirit and Gulfstream as an operation if you take in account weather changes, terrain, airspace, and aircraft complexity. My chief concern for Spirit pilots would be a flood of crew who have no industry experience resulting in a reduced ability to negotiate with management. Safety is always a concern, but experience comes with frequency, and in time.

At GIA I always treated the 250 guys with the respect they deserved, provided they had the right attitude towards their work.

 

[Gearthrower]

First, this has been done for years at other larger airlines that have their own simulators and large training budgets and who also value and invest in training their employees. I do not see that here at Spirit, they are going to give what 3 maybe 5 more sim's and 50 hrs of OE and this will some how magically make-up for the lack of experience; I wish I had more faith in the process, all you have to look at is how they train those that have 4000 to 8000 hrs. Never once have we trained in the use of HF. No increase in our yearly recurrent training to included Intl. Op's, just the same Evelyn Wood Power Point Presentation on Systems and Op Spec's. Most Major Airlines have separate courses on Intl. Op's that you must take to qual for specific regions, I.E. South America, Pacific and North Atlantic operations. Now, most would argue we are not a Major, and I would say you are correct that is why these individuals will have to work ten times as hard to achieve Mediocrity which is a damn shame. So it begs the question why not just pay the extra money to attract those high time pilots who are still out there with pay and benefits and stop trying to reinvent the wheel by hiring young pilots who will do anything short of murder to fly a big airplane. I will treat them with respect help them just as I would any other new hire pilot. But Spirit will never gives these young pilots the training they require to prepare them for this job. Also, where do you think their allegiances will be with the Union or the Company, my guess is the company. After three airlines I know who has my back when the chips are down and its not the company. This program will fail because we do not have the infrustructure to make it work. We can put this in the hall of shame in the new Jeff Carlson Memorial Crewroom in DTW.

 

[MINIME]

This is not good for anyone! Looks like the company is trying to position itself in a situation where if you ask for too much, they can easily show you the door. Why would they need to put up with greedy pilots, if they have an endless supply of wide eyed, deep pocket kids, who would do it for less or even for free!

These kids are going to be marginal when it comes to actually operating in the system. But far worse, they are not going to have a clue as to how a pilot should defend his profession, nor will they care! They will feel for ever grateful to the company for giving them the chance to fly a big shiny jet right out of college. You can count on those individuals voting along company lines every single time! I guarantee it! And the company's stance will be," if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you on the way out." The supply and demand equation is going to be severely tilted against pilots once again. Just like you saw afer 911.

Your union should be on this issue like mud on a pig. They should fight this all the way. It will hurt your pilot group and eventually the industry!

I believe Airtran was looking into something similar. But I believe their union stepped up to the plate and helped it go away. Some Citrus guys could perhaps elaborate on the issue.

 

[joeyfly55]

4000+ hrs with 500 Jet PIC and no call, sad!