Spirit Pilots!

[castle bravo]

" Take a look at USA 3000 with their 9 airplanes and 10 pilot bases. "


Take an even closer look at Ryanair and EasyJet. This is the model they are seeking to emulate.

 

[XJdriver]

I got an offer from Spirit a few weeks ago to come and work there. I had applied with them a year ago while Mesaba was in bankruptcy. During that time there was still a DTW base and it was atleast commutable from MSP. Now it looks like I can only go to FLL. I just don't see ever moving my family down there. It would be one of my last choices for places to live in the U.S.. I was told in the interview not to plan on ever getting DTW and I understand that he has to take that position when offering a job.

Does it really look like DTW is really really giong away or just a nagotiating tactic? With all the planes coming I know they will need more bases and there is rumors of TX or CA. Is there rumors about specific cities and which ones are being looked at first?

I talked to a few poeple who have left there for jobs that I would say are a move backwards not forward. If I come to NK it would be to stay. Are guys leaving there and if so why and where? I don't want to make a jump over there and need to look to make another jump in the future.

The biggest reason I am looking at NK today is there plans for future growth. I could be looking at a upgrade within a few years. I have heard that there are 30 planes coming and I have heard 50 planes. I can only find orders for 30 at the Airbus site. I was told they were coming in the beginning of 09 in my interview but on the Airbus site it says the first won't be till Oct of 09. That is still 2 years away. I have also heard that the new marketing plan is not going so well and that they are talking about canceling or slowing down the current orders.

Looking at airlinepilotcentral.com the most junior captain is from 2001, is that still accurate?
The only way to make more money then I am at Mesaba at NK is to upgrade. I know that NK is fighting for better FO wages.

What other things does the ALPA really think that they will get on this next contract. From my experience it will be a long time before it is settled. In the interview he said within 8 months it would be. Looking at press releases ALPA is talking to give up work rules for pay. I hope they are fighting to get both.

I also worry about the number of pilots vs aircraft. I see a ratio of 13 to 1 while most are 11 to 1 or less.
Can Spirit be a good final destination?

Shrek, how bad is the commute from DEN it looks about like trying to get out from MSP. How is the commuter policy?

Thanks for any insight anyone has on this.

 

[Shrek]

I can send you a contract that had our "old" commuter policy and basically make it unlimited and you have the new one.

To date I have never been bumped off any flight I have tried to/from DEN. Frontier 95% of the time w/ United being the other 5.

Is Spirit the last place I will work.....who knows - nobody does right now. Upgrade still looks like a good possibility but that can change in about 10 minutes around here.

I remain cautiously optimistic about the future and the next contract.

 

[XJdriver]

What I am really curious about is what the rumors are for future city bases.

Also if there are any rumors about orders being cancelled.

Thanks again.

 

[Beetle007]

I wouldn't chase the rumor of new bases as part of your decision to come to Spirit.

About 9 months ago the company published a questionare on the website asking where pilots would like to live (i.e., voluntary satellite bases). The union immediately stopped the questionare and I never printed a copy from the website. It had lots of possible bases. Basically everywhere that Spirit has overnights.

Check the Ryan Air and EasyJet websites and you will notice their pay and schedules are better than most U.S. Airlines (post 9-11).

Ryan Air: Schedules are 5 on, 4 off roster pattern comprising a week of early shifts followed by a week of late shifts (Home every night). Ryan Air payrates are higher than Southwest (when converting British pounds to U.S Dollars)

Easyjet: Shedules are 5 earlies shows, 4 days off, 5 late shows, 3 days off (Home every night). 25 vacation days a year so if you would take them all between your 5 working days can can have 5 * 12 days off.

 

[Shrek]

What I am really curious about is what the rumors are for future city bases.

Also if there are any rumors about orders being cancelled.

Thanks again.

Planes are comin...........anything other than that is anybody's guess.

 

[gatorbird]

I got an offer from Spirit a few weeks ago to come and work there. I had applied with them a year ago while Mesaba was in bankruptcy. During that time there was still a DTW base and it was atleast commutable from MSP. Now it looks like I can only go to FLL. I just don't see ever moving my family down there. It would be one of my last choices for places to live in the U.S.. I was told in the interview not to plan on ever getting DTW and I understand that he has to take that position when offering a job.

Does it really look like DTW is really really giong away or just a nagotiating tactic? With all the planes coming I know they will need more bases and there is rumors of TX or CA. Is there rumors about specific cities and which ones are being looked at first?

I talked to a few poeple who have left there for jobs that I would say are a move backwards not forward. If I come to NK it would be to stay. Are guys leaving there and if so why and where? I don't want to make a jump over there and need to look to make another jump in the future.

The biggest reason I am looking at NK today is there plans for future growth. I could be looking at a upgrade within a few years. I have heard that there are 30 planes coming and I have heard 50 planes. I can only find orders for 30 at the Airbus site. I was told they were coming in the beginning of 09 in my interview but on the Airbus site it says the first won't be till Oct of 09. That is still 2 years away. I have also heard that the new marketing plan is not going so well and that they are talking about canceling or slowing down the current orders.

Looking at airlinepilotcentral.com the most junior captain is from 2001, is that still accurate?
The only way to make more money then I am at Mesaba at NK is to upgrade. I know that NK is fighting for better FO wages.

What other things does the ALPA really think that they will get on this next contract. From my experience it will be a long time before it is settled. In the interview he said within 8 months it would be. Looking at press releases ALPA is talking to give up work rules for pay. I hope they are fighting to get both.

I also worry about the number of pilots vs aircraft. I see a ratio of 13 to 1 while most are 11 to 1 or less.
Can Spirit be a good final destination?

Shrek, how bad is the commute from DEN it looks about like trying to get out from MSP. How is the commuter policy?

Thanks for any insight anyone has on this.

DTW base status:

VP Flt. Ops. quoted at check airman meeting stating DTW will continue to get smaller with no more reductions until the first of next year. At that time, reductions made 20-30 lines at a time.

Anything more is rumor and speculation. We don't even know if this will indeed happen.

Most junior FO in DTW DOH 02/06/07. There are many FOs hired within the year that would bid back there if able.

It would be doubtful for a newhire to see DTW without a significant change in the current status.

Additional base status:

Rumor and speculation. VP Flt. Ops. again quoted as satellite base negotiations have slowed but are ongoing. No mention of locations or numbers.

SPA ALPA set a poor precedent by allowing a small ACY sat base earlier this year. The door was opened; however, the backlash has caused grumbling among the pilot group. Don't look for satellite bases being approved if put to a vote by the group as a whole.

AS SPECULATION ONLY: Look to the company trying to get small bases with mixed traits of a permanent base and satellite base. What does the pilot group get in return? Quid-pro-quo.

Current attrition:

Some pilots are leaving. Most are/were DTW-based, mostly FOs. Training dept. claims attrition rate has been 2-3 a month for several months.

Some are going to legacies, a few to Virgin America, and a few are going fractional, etc. Each has their own reason for what is best for them and their families.

Aircraft deliveries:

Company remains firm on claim of 2 deliveries for 2008. Probable return of 1 or 2 321s to leasors.

Company says we have 30 on firm order from Airbus. As pure speculation, Airbus website has a total of 44 orders/5 deliveries (319/320 mix) for Spirit straight off of latest updated link: http://www.airbus.com/en/corporate/orders_and_deliveries/

There has been no mention of any reduction/deferral of orders. Aircraft supposedly coming starting early 2009.

Captain upgrades:

The most junior captain currently in upgrade training DOH 08/27/01. No more upgrades until Feb. 08.

Keep in mind that there was a slim number of hires between 2001 and 2006. The above captain seniority no. is 265. The first FO in the "latest hire boom" (DOH 10/30/06) is seniority no. 344.

Contract concessions:

I have never seen ALPA or anyone else print that Spirit pilots will/should consider consessions to QOL for better pay. Most, if not all, pilots I have had contact with in my time here would not support a TA that did so. How they vote is yet to be seen. I can tell you that I would never support a TA that did not honor both pay and QOL.

Eight months to a TA is highly optimistic, probably impossible. NMB intervention has been requested, and these things take time.

Pilot/Aircraft ratio:

Not sure what you're looking for on this one. We have just shy of 500 pilots on seniority list and are currently operating 35 aircraft. That's a straight ratio of about 14:1.

The hard lines are blocked to about 76 hours during slow season, 82 or so in high season. I can't guess how often reserves are utilized.

There tends to be less open time during slower periods, more during peak periods.

Your career move:

Who knows? Let us know how it comes out when we all hit retirement age (whatever age that may be).

Sorry for the length, but I hope it helps.

gator

 

[XJdriver]

Gatorbird,


I found a press release from Oct 03 of this year talking about mediation talks. Here is a direct quote from it talking about the work rules. I bolded the part in the release that the MEC talked about giving to get better pay.




October 3, 2007

Spirit Pilots to Begin Mediated Negotiations as Contract Talks Sputter
WASHINGTON, D.C. – The pilots of Spirit Airlines, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl. (ALPA), today said that they will receive federal assistance from the National Mediation Board in ongoing contract negotiations between the union and the company, which began more than a year ago. Citing that their management has little interest in further direct negotiations, the pilots asked for mediation assistance due to numerous critical unresolved contract issues including scope, wages, work rules, and retirement.
“Management has been largely unresponsive to our attempts to negotiate in earnest for a fair and consensual contract,” said Capt. Matt Nowell, chairman of the Spirit Master Executive Council of ALPA. “They have delayed the negotiation process by coming to meetings unprepared and without the proper authority to negotiate our contract’s most important economic issues.”
Union negotiators have offered numerous productivity and other work rule enhancements, saving the company millions in exchange for better pay rates. The company, however, which is eager to accept these new work rules, still wants concessionary pay cuts at a time when they are making record profits. Additionally, management is insisting on concessionary per diem pay cuts that equal less than half the industry rate.
“The pilots and other employee groups at Spirit are the sole reason that this airline has been solvent over the years and is now enjoying prosperity—not the company individuals who appear to be stifling negotiations,” said Bill Russo, chairman of the pilots’ Negotiating Committee. “Bringing in a federal mediator will do little to further progress if the company persists in its strategy of trying to get us to negotiate with ourselves. Negotiations, whether direct face-to-face or under the auspices of a mediator, must be a two-way street.”


I have heard from a few people that the non-commuters are talking about giving up the 4 days off in a row provision for more pay.

I really hope this wont be the case since I will have to commute from MSP and will already be burning up a lot of my off time just to get to work and back.

I really had a good feeling about working there as far as the other employees go I think it is a good group. I just am worried about the new business plan and management and the customer service issues. It is a little scary taht the Better Business Bureau gives Spirit an "F" rating. I think either this will be the best choice I could make or the absolute worste. I finally got an upgrade at Mesaba after 6+ years and only have 100 hours of turbine PIC so if things go south at NK I won't have much to fall back on.

Thanks again!​

 

[vrb115]

Shrek,
Just lookin at the boards whats up my N life is good call me sometime T

what happen to the skins the other day

 

[FLYBOYMATTHEW]

I wouldn't read too much into the fat staffing ratio. If you take into consideration the "non-bidders", that ratio becomes much, much smaller. I just counted the non-bidder list for Dec., and there were 96 pilots on it. This includes instructors, management, leaves of absence, and pilots in initial training. These people will cover little or no flying for the month. When training is in full swing, it takes a lot of resources off of the line.

What does make me wonder though is the talk that we are hiring 150-200 pilots through the end of 2008 to staff the same net number of aircraft that we are currently flying. Is there something coming that we don't know about...possibly A320 deliveries after a favorable rate is negotiated?