Spirit orders 20 new 321's

[huncowboy]

Oh. Then I guess Spirit is better than Delta.

GMAFB

LOL No! Obviously Delta is the better choice!

- Delta is an established carrier. That means stability. Your position on the bottom of a gigantic airline will be stabilized.
- Delta has been cutting capacity 2-3% along with other legacies. Which also contributes to your stable QOL. While at least at United there will be many retirements, at Delta, you are going to enjoy bottom seniority for many years to come. Combined with pref bid you will never have to take a lengthy and expensive vacation again. But who wants to see the in-laws around Christmas anyways? Don't worry about that!
- Of course with all the above comes a risk of being furloughed. But hey! The economy is great! Just look at the DOW and watch CNBC for 5 minutes! And if you do get furloughed, so what? You will get to use your 4 year degree! May be that is why Delta wants you to have one! (I can tell you, when I was furloughed, mine came in really handy. Not!!! "So your resume says "First Officer?" ... "Ohh, so you are a pilot?")
- At Delta you will get to fly all those different airplanes. And don't we all like airplanes? I love jets. They are cool. Like the 80. It is a classic. In the next 15 years you will be able to climb the ladder, and get all the type ratings you ever wanted. 80, 737, 757/767, 320, 330, SevenFouhSeven... Yay!!! And who does not like to go to school? I love getting type ratings! And when you finally can hold left seat, you will get to do it all over again!
- And the atmosphere in the cockpit! If you have ever jumpseated in a DAL cockpit you know those guys are only cold because you are there. Otherwise it is just a wild party. You can hear "Raise the roof!!!" echoing in the jetbridge as you are walking away. Tons of fun I am sure.
- Also, I heard Delta captains are great instructors. You will have 10-15 years to receive quality flight instruction from the finest in the industry. Learning something new every day gets a whole new meaning. After all, learning is what makes you a great pilot! Being able to do the KORRY3 in 15 different ways is amazing. But when you are able to guess how your captain wants you to do it today... that is just priceless.
- How about ATL? Aaaatlantaaaa! Almost forgot. The only place you can make a turn onto Dixie. What a great place to live too! House prices are cheap! No idea why. And it is easy to get to ATL from anywhere. Just jump on your favorite RJ operator and hope they have no alternate that day. And the MARTA? Do I need to say more? Steamed leafy greens as a side dish? Huh? You do like that don't you?

... and YES... I was JOKING, exaggerating, and taking cheap shots. I am in my commuter hotel and can't sleep. But seriously. If you want to go to DAL, go to DAL. It is impossible to tell which is a bette choice. We will know in 20 years.

One thing is clear though. Legacies are not risk free! Furlough is a huge risk especially because you will be at the bottom of a very large list for a very long time. Longer than you think. It is true that most legacies have high retirements, but they are also shrinking at 2-3% per year. That is significant, and there is no reason to assume the trend won't continue. All the legacies continue to outsource more and more flying to the regionals. DAL is no exception.

QOL is also a problem. If you are 40 now (I am), you will be looking at an upgrade at the age of 50-55. Are you really going to do that? Be reserve when you are 55 in the most junior base and type? Which means commuting. No you wont. I would not. You would just continue your good QOL, live in base, and bypass. Probably just sit reserve and try to not go to work. At least you can afford to do that at DAL or UAL.

If you come to Spirit, you are rolling the dice. Fast movement and a QOL oriented contract is great. But the place is so small that it scares me. Right now we are the darling of Wall Street. But is our product going to stick? Are we going to buy someone and will the company play that entity against us? Are we going to be bought by someone? Are we a one crash airline still? Spirit is anything but a well run airline. Eventually that will change, but at this moment the growing pains are huge. Going to work is seriously tiring. Past month's on time performance went to 40% because some intern forgot to paste/copy something into our fueling manual. (Not joking here at all.) Right now we need a maintenance sign off for EVERY SINGLE LEG because our ground people were not trained properly and the FAA discovered we have loaded the cargo above the fire suppression line. Stuff like this has been ongoing here for the past two years.

All that above is the price you pay for a possibility. The potential to be a senior captain at an airline that could become a large one. One that might have a higher paying contract down the road. Right now as it looks I will be sitting a total of 2 months on reserve. By September, which will be my 3rd month as a CA, I will be top 60% in my junior base. That is huge as a commuter. If you ask me.

To each his own.

 

[SAABaroowski]

I hope they (mgmt) can handle the growth because I'm really digging it here and don't want to have to go anywhere else. Time will tell I guess..........

 

[Dart]

Awesome! I think I will buy you a beer.

LOL No! Obviously Delta is the better choice!

- Delta is an established carrier. That means stability. Your position on the bottom of a gigantic airline will be stabilized.
- Delta has been cutting capacity 2-3% along with other legacies. Which also contributes to your stable QOL. While at least at United there will be many retirements, at Delta, you are going to enjoy bottom seniority for many years to come. Combined with pref bid you will never have to take a lengthy and expensive vacation again. But who wants to see the in-laws around Christmas anyways? Don't worry about that!
- Of course with all the above comes a risk of being furloughed. But hey! The economy is great! Just look at the DOW and watch CNBC for 5 minutes! And if you do get furloughed, so what? You will get to use your 4 year degree! May be that is why Delta wants you to have one! (I can tell you, when I was furloughed, mine came in really handy. Not!!! "So your resume says "First Officer?" ... "Ohh, so you are a pilot?")
- At Delta you will get to fly all those different airplanes. And don't we all like airplanes? I love jets. They are cool. Like the 80. It is a classic. In the next 15 years you will be able to climb the ladder, and get all the type ratings you ever wanted. 80, 737, 757/767, 320, 330, SevenFouhSeven... Yay!!! And who does not like to go to school? I love getting type ratings! And when you finally can hold left seat, you will get to do it all over again!
- And the atmosphere in the cockpit! If you have ever jumpseated in a DAL cockpit you know those guys are only cold because you are there. Otherwise it is just a wild party. You can hear "Raise the roof!!!" echoing in the jetbridge as you are walking away. Tons of fun I am sure.
- Also, I heard Delta captains are great instructors. You will have 10-15 years to receive quality flight instruction from the finest in the industry. Learning something new every day gets a whole new meaning. After all, learning is what makes you a great pilot! Being able to do the KORRY3 in 15 different ways is amazing. But when you are able to guess how your captain wants you to do it today... that is just priceless.
- How about ATL? Aaaatlantaaaa! Almost forgot. The only place you can make a turn onto Dixie. What a great place to live too! House prices are cheap! No idea why. And it is easy to get to ATL from anywhere. Just jump on your favorite RJ operator and hope they have no alternate that day. And the MARTA? Do I need to say more? Steamed leafy greens as a side dish? Huh? You do like that don't you?

... and YES... I was JOKING, exaggerating, and taking cheap shots. I am in my commuter hotel and can't sleep. But seriously. If you want to go to DAL, go to DAL. It is impossible to tell which is a bette choice. We will know in 20 years.

One thing is clear though. Legacies are not risk free! Furlough is a huge risk especially because you will be at the bottom of a very large list for a very long time. Longer than you think. It is true that most legacies have high retirements, but they are also shrinking at 2-3% per year. That is significant, and there is no reason to assume the trend won't continue. All the legacies continue to outsource more and more flying to the regionals. DAL is no exception.

QOL is also a problem. If you are 40 now (I am), you will be looking at an upgrade at the age of 50-55. Are you really going to do that? Be reserve when you are 55 in the most junior base and type? Which means commuting. No you wont. I would not. You would just continue your good QOL, live in base, and bypass. Probably just sit reserve and try to not go to work. At least you can afford to do that at DAL or UAL.

If you come to Spirit, you are rolling the dice. Fast movement and a QOL oriented contract is great. But the place is so small that it scares me. Right now we are the darling of Wall Street. But is our product going to stick? Are we going to buy someone and will the company play that entity against us? Are we going to be bought by someone? Are we a one crash airline still? Spirit is anything but a well run airline. Eventually that will change, but at this moment the growing pains are huge. Going to work is seriously tiring. Past month's on time performance went to 40% because some intern forgot to paste/copy something into our fueling manual. (Not joking here at all.) Right now we need a maintenance sign off for EVERY SINGLE LEG because our ground people were not trained properly and the FAA discovered we have loaded the cargo above the fire suppression line. Stuff like this has been ongoing here for the past two years.

All that above is the price you pay for a possibility. The potential to be a senior captain at an airline that could become a large one. One that might have a higher paying contract down the road. Right now as it looks I will be sitting a total of 2 months on reserve. By September, which will be my 3rd month as a CA, I will be top 60% in my junior base. That is huge as a commuter. If you ask me.

To each his own.

 

[Flyer1015]

Spirit A321s delivering in 2015 and beyond will be configured 219 seats.

 

[Smarta$$]

Really? Several weeks and no spirit pilots can provide any details on how you make SO MUCH more money than your FO pay rate suggests?

 

[sealy101]

Its a secret.

 

[huncowboy]

Really? Several weeks and no spirit pilots can provide any details on how you make SO MUCH more money than your FO pay rate suggests?

It is only possible if you drop everything when the phone rings and you must live in or close to a base.

I averaged 125 hours per month last year with two lengthy vacations for a total of 6 weeks off. Others did better. Lots of guys did 150h on average.

There is two ways to do it. In both cases you work your ass off.

You can do 150h on average by bidding reserve and working on your days off. For us anything on our days off is above min guarantee. The phone rings on your day off and you take 1.5h move up pay per day for the trip and they can't use you on your reserve days because you are high on block. Sometimes you get 200% junior pay as well. I am hearing it is getting harder to do this as an FO because everyone is picking up trips for straight pay. Definitely not the case for CAs.

The other way is to bid a hard line and bid the transition conflict. This is what I did the past few years. This gets easier with seniority. I got about 20-30h soft time each bid period. Plus I would also put myself "available" on my day off and get called for trips for 200%, or move up pay, or you simply ask them to drop that 4 day down the road with pay. This is still lots of work, I flew some 860h or so and probably did 12 off on average if I don't count the vacation.

But what is cool is that I don't have to do this. I could also just take my days off and be off 18-20 days with 80h a month. Like next month. I am on reserve and still scored 16 days off in a row with a single week of vacation and a transition conflict. So off we go to drive the pacific coast highway for ten days or longer if we feel like. I bet you can't do that as a bottom junior CA with pref bid.

 

[Flyer1015]

I was gonna say it sounds like at Spirit (like any other airline) the only way to make more money is fly more. The only exception is the golden goose egg of hard lines that make transition conflicts possible. Most airlines have switched to PBS that can see pre-assigned activities and that saves on transition conflict. Spirit hasn't, and that's one way pilots make bank.

huncowboy, don't you use Flica pref bid? With hard lines that are published and you submit your order of preference?

 

[huncowboy]

Exactly. Flying your regular line and ignoring everything else will give you your usual pay and 15 off. Like all the other places. And many people do just that. Even senior people ignore transition. They don't care to educate themselves about the ins and outs of it. Their loss is my gain.

Yes we do preference lines in flica. When I wrote pref bid, I was thinking of the computer software that most companies use that build you a line.

 

[Dart]

Animal may be sold...

Spirit Airlines Announces Sale of Common Stock by Indigo
MIRAMAR, Fla., July 29, 2013 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Spirit Airlines, Inc. (Nasdaq:SAVE) announced today the public offering of 12,070,920 shares of common stock by certain existing stockholders affiliated with Indigo Partners LLC ("Indigo"). Upon completion of the offering, investment funds affiliated with Indigo will no longer own shares of common stock of Spirit Airlines. The company will not receive any proceeds from this offering. Barclays is acting as the sole underwriter for the offering.
The shares of common stock are being offered pursuant to the Company's existing shelf registration statement filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the "SEC") on July 31, 2012. A final prospectus supplement describing the terms of the offering will be filed with the SEC and, when available, may be obtained from the SEC's website at www.sec.gov or from Barclays Capital Inc., c/o Broadridge Financial Solutions, 1155 Long Island Avenue, Edgewood, NY, 11717, Telephone (888) 603-5847 or by e-mailing [email protected].
In connection with the offering, the Company also announced that Messrs. William A. Franke and John R. Wilson have informed the Company that upon completion of the offering, they expect to resign as directors at the next board meeting, presently scheduled for August 7, 2013. Upon Mr. Franke's resignation, the Company's board intends to elect Mr. H. McIntyre Gardner, a director since 2010, as Chairman of the Board.
This press release shall not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy, nor shall there be any sale of these securities in any state or jurisdiction in which such offer, solicitation or sale would be unlawful prior to registration or qualification under the securities laws of any such state or jurisdiction