Spirit Air Pilots move toward possible strike

[Grandpa +65]

Spirit Air pilots move toward possible strike
Comments14| Recommend 10h 8m ago from USA TODAY

Pilots at Spirit Airlines announced earlier this week that they plan "to ask for a release from federally-mediated contract talks. If the National Mediation Board grants the request, pilots could strike ... after a 30-day cooling-off period," according to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. In a letter to management, the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) accused Spirit of "blatantly violating a number of crucial work rules in the current contract and for claiming it had the unilateral right to do so whenever it wanted to save money," according to CBS 4 of Doral, Fla.
The Miami Herald (free registration) says that if the National Mediation Board "acts quickly, it could lead to a strike in a little over a month at the earliest, said Art Luby, ALPA assistant director of representation. Spirit pilots said they are entering their third year of negotiations for a new contract." In a press release, ALPA warns that a release from contract talks "could lead to a work stoppage." Spirit officials did not comment to any of the media covering the story.

 

[Flyer1015]

Good luck getting released!

If only Pinnacle could get released too.........

 

[BR715]

Atleast someone has the balls!

 

[Mike man]

...just thinking about those tender little White Castle burgers with those little, itty-bitty grilled onions that just explode in your mouth like flavor crystals every time you bite into one... just makes me want to burn this mother%#@&er down.

 

[gatorbird]

Good luck getting released!

If only Pinnacle could get released too.........

This isn't so much about obtaining a quick release from arbitration; ALPA (both MEC and National level) doesn't believe it will happen quickly either.

The objective (at least IMHO) is to attract media and public (yeah right--they care) attention to what is happening over here. It's another egg-on-management's-face strategy, and we could have a henhouse by the amount of that.

For those of you unfamiliar, in the last few months, Spirit management has:

1) Changed our 401-k provider without any counsel from our retirement committee (to a worse provider, of course).

2) Defying status-quo, changed the way we are paid by going to a wheel hub moving over all doors closed.

3) Disregarded one of the best QOL provisions in our contract (minimum 4 days off between pairings) and built our schedules as they see fit. It was determined last week that the company could have built them with this provision, had less opentime, and SAVED money! They (Director of Crew Planning) openly admitted these points, yet refused to resubmit the bid package. JM also stated that this order came from Board of Directors (Franke, Orenstein, and the other all-star cast on our board).

4) Performed numerous (most bogus) NOIs in an effort to intimidate the pilot group.

It should be noted that items 2 and 3 above will be won in grievances filed due to past practice (close to 10 years worth). The fact that Spirit management would blatantly waste money and resources on something guaranteed to lose in court is utterly irresponsible.

ALPA attorney Art Luby stated in his letter to management (CC'd to the pilot group) that there is no need for ALPA to waste money and resources on negotiating a new contract for us if Spirit management is not going to honor our current one. That is his stated logic in the request for release from mediated sessions.

We, as a pilot group, understand that this is not a good economic environment to negotiate a favorable contract. We cannot, however, allow management to totally disregard our compensation and QOL provisions set forth in our current CBA. If we crack the door, they will assuredly knock it down.

gator

 

[Colonel Savage]

"2) Defying status-quo, changed the way we are paid by going to a wheel hub moving over all doors closed."

Can you explain this? Particulary the "moving all doors closed" part. Thank you...

 

[Colonel Savage]

"ALPA attorney Art Luby stated in his letter to management (CC'd to the pilot group) that there is no need for ALPA to waste money and resources on negotiating a new contract for us if Spirit management is not going to honor our current one. That is his stated logic in the request for release from mediated sessions."

Very sound argument. Hope that works out for you.

 

[Mike man]

"2) Defying status-quo, changed the way we are paid by going to a wheel hub moving over all doors closed."

Contractually and historically we are paid when all the doors are closed. June 1st the company reprogrammed the ACARS to record the out time when the wheels move. So when you are in LGA sitting at the gate with the doors closed, waiting for someone to clear the alley we are not getting paid.

 

[spinproof]

"2) Defying status-quo, changed the way we are paid by going to a wheel hub moving over all doors closed."

Can you explain this? Particulary the "moving all doors closed" part. Thank you...

I believe he's refering to "out" or "block" time out starting when the gear starts rolling instead of upon the main door closing. The time between door closure and actual pushback being the difference.
Rats Mike beat me......

 

[McNugget]

Go ahead and shut it down. After all, there are lots of airlines hiring pilots, and it will be easy to find another job!

 

[boomlrd]

And we will.... McNugget

 

[Beetle007]

"2) Can you explain this? Particulary the "moving all doors closed" part. Thank you...

According to Spirit's contract

“Block-to-Block means that period of time beginning when an aircraft first moves under its own power or under tow from the ramp blocks for the purpose of flight and ending when the aircraft comes to a stop at the ramp at the next intermediate stop or final destination or point of departure, as the case may be."​

The company has normally paid from door closure (except for a few older A321s). Now the company says they are going to pay wheel movement on all aircraft according to the definition in our contract. ​

The union says that since they used to pay us door closure on most aircraft....that company can't change it during negotiations (i.e., past precedence). ​

 

[gatorbird]

Go ahead and shut it down. After all, there are lots of airlines hiring pilots, and it will be easy to find another job!

I sincerely hope that "shutting it down" is not the end result, but...

When you consider - especially for those of us that commute - that what management has done to the schedules will prevent many of us from seeing our families for weeks at a time, and only then for brief periods...

When you consider how many of us have been transformed into commuters due to "base reallocations"...

When you consider that we are already some of the lowest-compensated LCC pilots in the industry (especially FOs) - and then the company dumps us upside down for a few more nickels and dimes (Spirit enjoys the lowest non-fuel CASM in the US)...

When you consider that most of us were accustomed to 15-18 days off, only to see 13 days off become the norm in the same month that some of our own hit the streets...

...you have to question yourself, is this worth saving? Is this really a good job anymore (believe me, it was for awhile!)? Should I continue to sit idly by while management just takes and takes and takes?

Just because there are few flying jobs available right now doesn't mean that I'll accept watching my own job go down the drain.

gator

 

[gatorbird]

And thanks to Mike O and the others for clarifying the block time issue.

gator

 

[pdub20s]

I sincerely hope that "shutting it down" is not the end result, but...

When you consider - especially for those of us that commute - that what management has done to the schedules will prevent many of us from seeing our families for weeks at a time, and only then for brief periods...

When you consider how many of us have been transformed into commuters due to "base reallocations"...

When you consider that we are already some of the lowest-compensated LCC pilots in the industry (especially FOs) - and then the company dumps us upside down for a few more nickels and dimes (Spirit enjoys the lowest non-fuel CASM in the US)...

When you consider that most of us were accustomed to 15-18 days off, only to see 13 days off become the norm in the same month that some of our own hit the streets...

...you have to question yourself, is this worth saving? Is this really a good job anymore (believe me, it was for awhile!)? Should I continue to sit idly by while management just takes and takes and takes?

Just because there are few flying jobs available right now doesn't mean that I'll accept watching my own job go down the drain.

gator

Looks like JO is becoming more vocal in the Board

 

[greenbayfan]

When you consider - especially for those of us that commute - that what management has done to the schedules will prevent many of us from seeing our families for weeks at a time, and only then for brief periods...

I don't know any airline that currently builds schedules that have a minimum of 4 days off between trips, and news flash brother.....most pilots commute at EVERY airline. I can see the rage over mgmt. making up their own rules as you go and if mgmt is nickle and diming you regarding when you start the clock running, I'm thinking the pilots won't need to do much to shut down Spirit Airlines if they are resorting to these tactics.

 

[Mike man]

I don't know any airline that currently builds schedules that have a minimum of 4 days off between trips, and news flash brother.....most pilots commute at EVERY airline. I can see the rage over mgmt. making up their own rules as you go and if mgmt is nickle and diming you regarding when you start the clock running, I'm thinking the pilots won't need to do much to shut down Spirit Airlines if they are resorting to these tactics.

Actually you do...Spirit

From the contract:

g. “Regular Lines” which shall contain:

(1) A planned sequence of trips with intervening days off arranged in a schedule for the month and a variety of bid lines;

(2) No more than eighty-five (85) block hours;

(3) No out of base trips;

(4) No reserve days;

(5) To the maximum extent possible, blocks of five (5) consecutive days off in domicile. In lieu of the above, to the maximum extent possible, no less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile, except regular lines may contain blocks of less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile on the first three and last three days of the month. Exceptions tomultiple day-off blocks may occur with prior consultation of the Scheduling Committee Chairman.

(3)No more than 28.5 block hours within a seven-day period.

 

[Bighorn]

I don't know any airline that currently builds schedules that have a minimum of 4 days off between trips, and news flash brother.....most pilots commute at EVERY airline. I can see the rage over mgmt. making up their own rules as you go and if mgmt is nickle and diming you regarding when you start the clock running, I'm thinking the pilots won't need to do much to shut down Spirit Airlines if they are resorting to these tactics.

You had to know the handwriting was on the wall when Spirit started charging for friggn water and pretzels...they can go out of biz anytime and it would do us all alot more good than harm....


Do you remember saying this. I'll let my kids read it a hole. It would do us all a lot more good than harm?

I do hope Midwest, or where ever you work, stays around for the sake of your family.

 

[macdu]

We have the "wheels in motion" too. Just communicate with the tug driver you need 1.5mph or 2knots on the PFD to get the out time so your on the clock. A good tug driver can get you there in 30 feet and still be in the parking area. It's a little aggressive but hey, I get tired of doing one and a half/two hours of prep work and not earning a dime. We mastered this during the winter months at ORD when we have to get deiced at the gate. Now the clock is running when I have to wait for traffic in the alley or I am getting deiced.
By the way if you can befriend a mechanic, all the various ACARS timing changes are in the box for you to choose from. Just need the access code. Hackers welcome. I must state; I do not recommend that. Just be a better player at the game!
I also want to add my own "goodluck" to all you folks.

 

[labbats]

Actually you do...Spirit

From the contract:

g. “Regular Lines” which shall contain:

(1) A planned sequence of trips with intervening days off arranged in a schedule for the month and a variety of bid lines;

(2) No more than eighty-five (85) block hours;

(3) No out of base trips;

(4) No reserve days;

(5) To the maximum extent possible, blocks of five (5) consecutive days off in domicile. In lieu of the above, to the maximum extent possible, no less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile, except regular lines may contain blocks of less than four (4) consecutive days off in domicile on the first three and last three days of the month. Exceptions tomultiple day-off blocks may occur with prior consultation of the Scheduling Committee Chairman.

(3)No more than 28.5 block hours within a seven-day period.

"To the maximum extent possible" just negated everything said after it. Our contract is littered with the same.

Why anyone would sign a contract with loopholes is beyond me. What's the point of a contract?

How about I write up a contract that I'll pay your kid to mow my lawn for $50 a week if I can afford it. If not then it'll be $5. Would you sign that? Of course not, but ALPA and the Teamsters have no issues whatsoever.