How far back does a NDR check indicate? How many is TOO many for an airline interview? I have gotten my state record and it goes back 7 years. It shows four tickets for speeding 10-15 mph in excess of the limit over a period of about seven years. I know I had a few others from teenage/early twenties but they didn't show on the state record. Will other background checks done by the majors show EVERYTHING and am I going to be OK in an interview with what I DO show?
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Speeding Tickets
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RJones
Rico SWAFO
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2001
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Let me try to help a little. I talked with my sister, who's a police officer, several years ago and she stated that the state record would only go back 7 - 10 years. She said anything beyond that would be "purged" from the data base. The reason as she stated was because the states data bases can't hold that much information. The qualifier on that is...if your a problem driver your offenses will be retained beyond the 7 - 10 year limit.
As far as the NDR report is concerned, it will only list offenses that result in DUI's, Suspensions and the like, not tickets. It will go back to the begining of your driving record. I would suggest that you get a copy of your NDR report prior to applying to any commercial operator.
Not sure how many tickets are too many, maybe someone else could chime in on that.
RJ
As far as the NDR report is concerned, it will only list offenses that result in DUI's, Suspensions and the like, not tickets. It will go back to the begining of your driving record. I would suggest that you get a copy of your NDR report prior to applying to any commercial operator.
Not sure how many tickets are too many, maybe someone else could chime in on that.
RJ
Bill Nelson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2002
- Posts
- 467
Just called
I just called and found out that my COMPLETE record shows I have five tickets, all minor speeding, since I was 17yrs old starting from 1987. I know this is a lot and a few I can explain away as doing the hiway speed and not seeing a posted change in the speed limit(ie was posted 55mph but change to 45mph and did not see the sign in time). History as follows;
1987
1997
1996
1999
2000
I know this sux but if I sat clean and am honest about the record will I have a problem. Really worried about this. Any advice appreciated. How far back do they check so I have an idea of how many I will have to answer for.
I just called and found out that my COMPLETE record shows I have five tickets, all minor speeding, since I was 17yrs old starting from 1987. I know this is a lot and a few I can explain away as doing the hiway speed and not seeing a posted change in the speed limit(ie was posted 55mph but change to 45mph and did not see the sign in time). History as follows;
1987
1997
1996
1999
2000
I know this sux but if I sat clean and am honest about the record will I have a problem. Really worried about this. Any advice appreciated. How far back do they check so I have an idea of how many I will have to answer for.
Last edited:
ivauir
SNIKT!
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2002
- Posts
- 1,476
OK, first off take adeep breath and try to relax. It has been three years since your last ticket - right? You are going to have to go to your state NDR to find out how far back the record goes. 10 years used to be the "stadard" answer, but 9-11 changed that: now the FBI is involved so all kinds of strange things come up - it used to just be convictions within 10 years - but now it seems that ANY contact with law enforcement - EVER - is fair game. I'd be ready to talk about all of these tickets.
I could be wrong, but I think you're OK. What you want to avoid in your background check is any thing recent relevant or really really bad.
My advice to you:
- Relax - the old tickets are a done deal, don't try to hide them, but don't stress, you can't undo them now.
- Stop speeding! you have a trend going, you need to show that you are reformed.
- Consider taking a driver safety course. You can do this to lower your insurance rates and by doing it voluntarily you can show that you really are reformed and that you want to follow the law now.
Good luck!
I could be wrong, but I think you're OK. What you want to avoid in your background check is any thing recent relevant or really really bad.
My advice to you:
- Relax - the old tickets are a done deal, don't try to hide them, but don't stress, you can't undo them now.
- Stop speeding! you have a trend going, you need to show that you are reformed.
- Consider taking a driver safety course. You can do this to lower your insurance rates and by doing it voluntarily you can show that you really are reformed and that you want to follow the law now.
Good luck!
AF757Pilot
Finally at SWA
- Joined
- Jun 23, 2002
- Posts
- 66
Be Honest
Botz,
What ever you do, be completely honest. Do not lie about anything on an app, interview, resume. A lie will come back to haunt you! Most of us know of people that have been bitten by a lie. Even if you honestly forget to claim a speeding ticket, you can be seen by a potential employer as being dishonest.
Good luck.
AF
Botz,
What ever you do, be completely honest. Do not lie about anything on an app, interview, resume. A lie will come back to haunt you! Most of us know of people that have been bitten by a lie. Even if you honestly forget to claim a speeding ticket, you can be seen by a potential employer as being dishonest.
Good luck.
AF
LiveFreeorDie
Large Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2002
- Posts
- 224
I used to speed alot....
I used to speed alot until I hit 25 and had my first kid. After that I just started leaving 10-15 min early and letting the rush hour traffic pass me by. Got to where I could usually find a hole in the traffic and relax for my 45 min commute.
I had two tickets on my record and got into the SWA pool in June of 2001. I am #90 on the list now. If that is where you are interviewing the negatives can make great postitive stories. The traffic tickets never came up, however.
Everyone has something on their resume/background/whatever that isn't 100% shiny. I think how you talk about it and handle it tells the employer volumes about what kind of person you are.
So suck it up and be honest, and if you have to wait two years longer, instead of 2 months, to get your dream job--you might as well do something you like in those two years! Good luck either way.
IMHO,
LFD
I used to speed alot until I hit 25 and had my first kid. After that I just started leaving 10-15 min early and letting the rush hour traffic pass me by. Got to where I could usually find a hole in the traffic and relax for my 45 min commute.
I had two tickets on my record and got into the SWA pool in June of 2001. I am #90 on the list now. If that is where you are interviewing the negatives can make great postitive stories. The traffic tickets never came up, however.
Everyone has something on their resume/background/whatever that isn't 100% shiny. I think how you talk about it and handle it tells the employer volumes about what kind of person you are.
So suck it up and be honest, and if you have to wait two years longer, instead of 2 months, to get your dream job--you might as well do something you like in those two years! Good luck either way.
IMHO,
LFD
Bill Nelson
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2002
- Posts
- 467
bozt,
who did you call to get that information? I talked with the DPS and they told me to mail in a form with $7 to find out. Is there a number to call?
LiveFree,
You said you had two tickets. Does that mean that you had two tickets that were current? (meaning they would count against you for insurance purposes?) or that you have had two tickets in your life?
who did you call to get that information? I talked with the DPS and they told me to mail in a form with $7 to find out. Is there a number to call?
LiveFree,
You said you had two tickets. Does that mean that you had two tickets that were current? (meaning they would count against you for insurance purposes?) or that you have had two tickets in your life?
background
Can anyone shed some light on exactly WHAT SWA asks for on the background check? I plan to get a full check done. I FULLY intend to answer any questions they may have but I have head too many stories of folks being called and told that their hiring was terminated to later find out they forgot to list an old ticket, etc. I, for one do NOT intend to have all my efforts wasted because of something forgotten from long ago. I just hope I can convince them that my past speeding tickets were a result of "youthful ignorance" and are NOT part of my present or future trends.
Can anyone shed some light on exactly WHAT SWA asks for on the background check? I plan to get a full check done. I FULLY intend to answer any questions they may have but I have head too many stories of folks being called and told that their hiring was terminated to later find out they forgot to list an old ticket, etc. I, for one do NOT intend to have all my efforts wasted because of something forgotten from long ago. I just hope I can convince them that my past speeding tickets were a result of "youthful ignorance" and are NOT part of my present or future trends.
Clownpilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 166
Dead wrong
Sort of.
The NDR does indeed contan that information.
However, by law the airline itself may only check back 5 years.
Under the Pilots Reform Act the NDR may only release the past 5 years to an airline who submits a request. That is why in addition to the NDR they also ask for a driving record from your state that goes back further in many cases. Of course that includes the dpeeding tickets of course as well.
Sort of.
The NDR does indeed contan that information.
However, by law the airline itself may only check back 5 years.
Under the Pilots Reform Act the NDR may only release the past 5 years to an airline who submits a request. That is why in addition to the NDR they also ask for a driving record from your state that goes back further in many cases. Of course that includes the dpeeding tickets of course as well.
RJones said:
NDR
jUST IN CASE YOU WANT THE ADDRESS:
National Driving Record
400 7th Street SW
Room 6124
Washington DC 20590-0001
Phone Number 202-366-4800
I sent them a written request , and in about a month they sent me a letter, stating that they could find no records pertaining to me ,,,, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
So drop the a note and they will get back to you.
jUST IN CASE YOU WANT THE ADDRESS:
National Driving Record
400 7th Street SW
Room 6124
Washington DC 20590-0001
Phone Number 202-366-4800
I sent them a written request , and in about a month they sent me a letter, stating that they could find no records pertaining to me ,,,, weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
So drop the a note and they will get back to you.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2003
- Posts
- 1,178
There are four record databases pertaining to driving records:
Police, court, DMV and the NDR.
Police and court records can be expunged (removed from public inspection). This does not apply to minor traffic violations, such as speeding tickets. If you have ever been charged with a crime, including a traffic violation for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed (vehicular manslaugther, DUI, DWI etc), you may file a petition for expungement if:
You were found not guilty
The charges were dismissed
You received PBJ (probation)
Nol prosequi ( State didn't prosecute)
Stet
So, if you fall under one of the above, file the petition, pay the filing fee and ,if the State's attorney and cops do not object, you should have a clean Court and Police record ONLY in about 60 days (proecedure varies by state). What it means is if your probation has expired and it's been (generally) more than 3 years since the trial, you're home free
Now, DMV records are even easier. Simply ask your local DMV office for expungement instruction and follow to a tee. Usually, you have to have been conviction free for a period of three years (not charge free, but conviction free, it's very important). So even if you got tickets within the last three years, but beat the rap, your records will be wiped out clean. After that, "disclosure of expunged information may not be required of a person who applies for eomployment, etc." Some states expunge their records automatically, every 5 years or so, so check with states where you may have gotten tickets.
Finally, for the NDR, and its implications for aviators...
As per PRIA of '96 (thanks Slick Willy), information furnished is limited to 5 years. So if the record of suspension was entered more than 5 years ago and the suspension IS NOT in effect on the date of the request, you're home free.
So, if the last of your 25 speeding tickets was more than 3 years ago and you've gone through the process of expunging your state records, simply state that you've never even been pulled over. And if your 3rd or 4th DUI and/or DWI, which almost always comes with a suspension, took place more than 5 years ago, simply state that you've never even touched a bottle.
Touche
DISCLAIMER: Consult your attorney to determine how the law applies to your case, and/or contact your court clerk for more info on procedures of expungment
Police, court, DMV and the NDR.
Police and court records can be expunged (removed from public inspection). This does not apply to minor traffic violations, such as speeding tickets. If you have ever been charged with a crime, including a traffic violation for which a term of imprisonment may be imposed (vehicular manslaugther, DUI, DWI etc), you may file a petition for expungement if:
You were found not guilty
The charges were dismissed
You received PBJ (probation)
Nol prosequi ( State didn't prosecute)
Stet
So, if you fall under one of the above, file the petition, pay the filing fee and ,if the State's attorney and cops do not object, you should have a clean Court and Police record ONLY in about 60 days (proecedure varies by state). What it means is if your probation has expired and it's been (generally) more than 3 years since the trial, you're home free
Now, DMV records are even easier. Simply ask your local DMV office for expungement instruction and follow to a tee. Usually, you have to have been conviction free for a period of three years (not charge free, but conviction free, it's very important). So even if you got tickets within the last three years, but beat the rap, your records will be wiped out clean. After that, "disclosure of expunged information may not be required of a person who applies for eomployment, etc." Some states expunge their records automatically, every 5 years or so, so check with states where you may have gotten tickets.
Finally, for the NDR, and its implications for aviators...
As per PRIA of '96 (thanks Slick Willy), information furnished is limited to 5 years. So if the record of suspension was entered more than 5 years ago and the suspension IS NOT in effect on the date of the request, you're home free.
So, if the last of your 25 speeding tickets was more than 3 years ago and you've gone through the process of expunging your state records, simply state that you've never even been pulled over. And if your 3rd or 4th DUI and/or DWI, which almost always comes with a suspension, took place more than 5 years ago, simply state that you've never even touched a bottle.
Touche
DISCLAIMER: Consult your attorney to determine how the law applies to your case, and/or contact your court clerk for more info on procedures of expungment
Some good info! Thanks!!
My question about driving records and what-not is: do airlines check the databases for all fifty states? For example, I've driven cross-country several times and have gotten tickets in probably three states (including my own). I've only checked the database for my home state and it is clean. Do I need to check each state where I've gotten a ticket (they were all at least five years ago and I'm not sure I remember all of them)? What if I forget one?
Also, what about speeding tickets on military bases? Are they reported anywhere? I believe I've gotten a couple of those, but I only remember the most recent one last year. I wouldn't even know where to check the info on that. Should I let the airlines know about speeding tickets on military bases?
Finally (and this is probably a dumb question)...what about the times you get pulled over and the cop lets you go? They run your plates and all, so is it reported anywhere? I once got pulled over for going, well...alot, over the limit, but happened to be in my flight suit, so the very kind police officer simply told me to remember that my car was not an airplane! I assume that if a ticket was not issued, no record is made and there is nothing to tell the airlines about. Yes?
My question about driving records and what-not is: do airlines check the databases for all fifty states? For example, I've driven cross-country several times and have gotten tickets in probably three states (including my own). I've only checked the database for my home state and it is clean. Do I need to check each state where I've gotten a ticket (they were all at least five years ago and I'm not sure I remember all of them)? What if I forget one?
Also, what about speeding tickets on military bases? Are they reported anywhere? I believe I've gotten a couple of those, but I only remember the most recent one last year. I wouldn't even know where to check the info on that. Should I let the airlines know about speeding tickets on military bases?
Finally (and this is probably a dumb question)...what about the times you get pulled over and the cop lets you go? They run your plates and all, so is it reported anywhere? I once got pulled over for going, well...alot, over the limit, but happened to be in my flight suit, so the very kind police officer simply told me to remember that my car was not an airplane! I assume that if a ticket was not issued, no record is made and there is nothing to tell the airlines about. Yes?
What SWA (used to) ask for
My info is a couple years old, and when the new app system comes on line, what they will ask for is anybody's guess. However, the old (all paper!) application that asked about tickets & other offenses did NOT specify any time limit. There was space to list a few things, but you could always continue on a blank sheet if you had more.
I asked Rob Beeks about exactly this question, how far back should I go, and he was pretty clear: go ALL THE WAY BACK. Every ticket you ever got, from age 16 on! Here's why:
Southwest has the big picture, and they know that guys who like fast airplanes and have a heavy right foot in their 20's can & do grow up into safe, calm, mature aviators by their 30's and 40's. Do you think that nobody here has ever had speeding tickets in their youth? You better believe we did! Many with worse records than yours, most likely. BIG PICTURE! If you are *still* getting a ticket or two every year, consistently live on the edge of getting your license yanked, etc, then yes that is an issue. But if the tickets are in the past & all the other things all point to "good pilot & good dude," then you're fine.
ON THE OTHER HAND, integrity is a HUGE issue, and what you put on the app is a measure of you, right now & right here. DON'T EVER LIE ON AN APPLICATION TO SOUTHWEST!!! Even about something small & minor. If they find out, you're done. If they find out after you're hired, you may very possibly be done. It's an incredibly stupid gamble to put on the app only what you think that they can verify from whatever records check, because the costs of putting the info on (probably nobody will much care) are outweighed by the cost of getting caught (lose the job).
How would you feel getting to training, finding out that everybody else in class listed all their tickets (all 15 of them!), and you are the only one who claimed to be a perfect driver up until 10 years ago? I PMed with a guy here on FlightInfo a couple years ago who had been hired by a major airline (not SWA) but had omitted a couple of tickets from his app, and it was hanging over his head, because if they EVER found out he'd lied on the app, he could be canned. How would you want THAT hanging over you for the next 20+ years???
(Disclaimer: I don't KNOW that they expect every ticket back to age 16 or that they WOULD consider an omission from college days as an integrity problem, but in the absence of clear instructions, why set yourself up for something like that? Obviously, there's a "big picture" here as well -- if you list 7 tickets & they find an 8th from college days, that's less of a deal than if you list 2 & they find 2 more. But why live on the edge like that?)
Perhaps the new application will make all this moot by putting some time limit on the question, but for now I'd be ready to put down EVERY ticket you've ever gotten. If they cost you the job, at least you can say that you did the right & honorable thing. But I have a hard time imagining a scenario where they say "great guy, great recommendations, good job on the interview, competitive experience, but dang, look at all those traffic tickets 10 years ago... can't hire him." Remember, it's chief pilots on the decision board -- they're humans, not angels, and SWA chief pilots are, in the vast majority, some genuine good guys who are not hypocrits that would demand a perfection from applicants beyond what they did in their youth. They know like everybody else that the pilot with only 2 speeding tickets, 9 and 5 years ago, is either the exception or not fessing up!
Put the tickets on there, and relax. They'll appreciate your honesty!
All the best,
Snoopy
My info is a couple years old, and when the new app system comes on line, what they will ask for is anybody's guess. However, the old (all paper!) application that asked about tickets & other offenses did NOT specify any time limit. There was space to list a few things, but you could always continue on a blank sheet if you had more.
I asked Rob Beeks about exactly this question, how far back should I go, and he was pretty clear: go ALL THE WAY BACK. Every ticket you ever got, from age 16 on! Here's why:
Southwest has the big picture, and they know that guys who like fast airplanes and have a heavy right foot in their 20's can & do grow up into safe, calm, mature aviators by their 30's and 40's. Do you think that nobody here has ever had speeding tickets in their youth? You better believe we did! Many with worse records than yours, most likely. BIG PICTURE! If you are *still* getting a ticket or two every year, consistently live on the edge of getting your license yanked, etc, then yes that is an issue. But if the tickets are in the past & all the other things all point to "good pilot & good dude," then you're fine.
ON THE OTHER HAND, integrity is a HUGE issue, and what you put on the app is a measure of you, right now & right here. DON'T EVER LIE ON AN APPLICATION TO SOUTHWEST!!! Even about something small & minor. If they find out, you're done. If they find out after you're hired, you may very possibly be done. It's an incredibly stupid gamble to put on the app only what you think that they can verify from whatever records check, because the costs of putting the info on (probably nobody will much care) are outweighed by the cost of getting caught (lose the job).
How would you feel getting to training, finding out that everybody else in class listed all their tickets (all 15 of them!), and you are the only one who claimed to be a perfect driver up until 10 years ago? I PMed with a guy here on FlightInfo a couple years ago who had been hired by a major airline (not SWA) but had omitted a couple of tickets from his app, and it was hanging over his head, because if they EVER found out he'd lied on the app, he could be canned. How would you want THAT hanging over you for the next 20+ years???
(Disclaimer: I don't KNOW that they expect every ticket back to age 16 or that they WOULD consider an omission from college days as an integrity problem, but in the absence of clear instructions, why set yourself up for something like that? Obviously, there's a "big picture" here as well -- if you list 7 tickets & they find an 8th from college days, that's less of a deal than if you list 2 & they find 2 more. But why live on the edge like that?)
Perhaps the new application will make all this moot by putting some time limit on the question, but for now I'd be ready to put down EVERY ticket you've ever gotten. If they cost you the job, at least you can say that you did the right & honorable thing. But I have a hard time imagining a scenario where they say "great guy, great recommendations, good job on the interview, competitive experience, but dang, look at all those traffic tickets 10 years ago... can't hire him." Remember, it's chief pilots on the decision board -- they're humans, not angels, and SWA chief pilots are, in the vast majority, some genuine good guys who are not hypocrits that would demand a perfection from applicants beyond what they did in their youth. They know like everybody else that the pilot with only 2 speeding tickets, 9 and 5 years ago, is either the exception or not fessing up!
Put the tickets on there, and relax. They'll appreciate your honesty!
All the best,
Snoopy
Background checks
Snoopy,
I completely agree. Lots of talk here on "How far back do they LOOK" and so on, but if they ask, you must tell. If they ask for all, then tell all. Interesting note BTW, in my research over the past couple of days, I found that the internet age has truly caught up to us. If you are thinking about background checks, many County Clerk of Court offices are now online. Because court records are public info, you can log on FOR FREE and just type in a name to get all court related info from that county. I didn't expect to find anything for myself but read here about others who "forgot" to pay a ticket with a resulting arrest warrant. Thought it would be safe to check just for the peace of mind. As I suspected, I'm clean but if you are questioning, just find the web page for the individual Court Clerk's office and do a search. If you do find something, have the court send you documentation in the mail to bring to the interview. That way if they ask, you have the proof right there and the issue will be closed. Better than walking away from an otherwise good interview and having "homework" to do. "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
Snoopy,
I completely agree. Lots of talk here on "How far back do they LOOK" and so on, but if they ask, you must tell. If they ask for all, then tell all. Interesting note BTW, in my research over the past couple of days, I found that the internet age has truly caught up to us. If you are thinking about background checks, many County Clerk of Court offices are now online. Because court records are public info, you can log on FOR FREE and just type in a name to get all court related info from that county. I didn't expect to find anything for myself but read here about others who "forgot" to pay a ticket with a resulting arrest warrant. Thought it would be safe to check just for the peace of mind. As I suspected, I'm clean but if you are questioning, just find the web page for the individual Court Clerk's office and do a search. If you do find something, have the court send you documentation in the mail to bring to the interview. That way if they ask, you have the proof right there and the issue will be closed. Better than walking away from an otherwise good interview and having "homework" to do. "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
ceo_of_the_sofa
Registered User
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2002
- Posts
- 618
there's no need to mention anything that can't be legally obtained by the airlines
provided all state records were expunged, and the suspension took place longer than five years ago, individuals shouldn't incriminate themselves
this information cannot be obtained by the airlines, and as far as the law is concerned, record is thus perfect. Attempts by the airlines to discriminate against hiring an individual based on the expunged record is illegal, if not impossible (case point, say you applied 3 years ago with points on your record, and now they were expunged, your employer can't discriminate based on that)
know your rights, thats all
provided all state records were expunged, and the suspension took place longer than five years ago, individuals shouldn't incriminate themselves
this information cannot be obtained by the airlines, and as far as the law is concerned, record is thus perfect. Attempts by the airlines to discriminate against hiring an individual based on the expunged record is illegal, if not impossible (case point, say you applied 3 years ago with points on your record, and now they were expunged, your employer can't discriminate based on that)
know your rights, thats all
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