Speculator's mocking the airlines

[BoilerUP]

Go get my bags and make sure my rental car is ready and this catering is too cold...

A good corporate pilot doesn't need to be told to get the bags, he already has them...and its the FBO's job to have the rental car ready; that's why line guys get their tip. Catering? Well, if you were paying what a freaking turkey sandwich costs at a major airport you're gonna want the food right too.

BTW, are you enjoying the free popcorn at the FBO while your masters are out golfing???

Can't speak for Jack but I sure do; it's a nice complement to the free Otis Spunkmeyer cookies, Starbucks Coffee, ice-cold bottled water, satellite TV, free wifi, leather recliners, crew cars and AvTrip points.

Those are both pretty weak arguments against corporate or fractional flying, Bill...

 

[Copydat]

If you believe speculators do not play into market price then you have chosen to ignore:

Tech stock bubble courtesy of cheap online trading
California brownouts that occurred courtesy of Enron
Housing bubble courtesy of mortgage lenders

These events and others were caused by unrealistic market conditions that could not be sustained in the long term. And a few felony convictions occured to boot. Only the oil barons try to believe that the oil market is in a natural state of supply and demand at this particular snapshot in time. But relax, the market will eventually win out and those left holding the bag will get burned as always.

 

[timmay]

Hey Jackhole.....

Go get my bags and make sure my rental car is ready and this catering is too cold...

BTW, are you enjoying the free popcorn at the FBO while your masters are out golfing???

Yes you are right it is very difficult to lower 6 bags down to a line guy. Last week I even got a hang nail from it. The injury was so bad I had to spend the next 4 days in southern california recovering. After that I had to change the lav all by myself when suddenly it exploded everywhere!!! I am so dejected! Say do you know where I can get one of those cool airline jobs flying a 777, 100 hours a month and making 30k cause I think that would be super.

 

[AC560]

Another thread where everything that ails the airline industry is something other then the industry itself.

 

[Freeze_gopher]

Just curious if you have any reference for this "fact." The Wall St. Journal reports that 90-95% of the price at the pump is directly attributable to crude oil prices.

A look at the OPEC website (http://www.opec.org/home/basket.aspx) shows the daily basket price astonishingly close to the trading price per barrel. It looks to me that IF speculators are driving up prices (and I havn't seen any evidence that they are other than shrill leftist voices trying to draw attention away from the fact that 90% of our offshore reserves are not being tapped) that they add about $10 per barrel maximum.

I realize that it is much easier to blame an evil capitalist or corporation than to understand the reality that we have royally screwed ourselves, but admitting that we (and when I say "we" I mean the Democrats and their environmental special interests) are a big part of the problem is the first step to fixing it.

Blueridge,

Do you even know what basket price represents? This number shows what the price is on a given day for a specific type of crude. It has nothing to do with how the price got there. The Wall Street Journal info also says nothing about how the price got to where it is? What's your point?
Don't respond with some weak, poorly thought out platitudes, put together a real argument that explains where there is a shortage of supply (I'm going to show facts that there is no shortage), or where the weak dollar is responsible for more than 30% of the overall increase (I'm going to show you how the dollar can not be responsible for more than that). What is the Commodities Futures Modernization Act? What is the Intercontinental Exchange? Why are Investment banks trading there instead of the NYMEX? No more cheap talk about leftists, environmentalists, the media, or politicians. Stick to the point and explain the price to me.

 

[Diesel]

The bread and butter is now netjets pilots sitting in first airlining around the globe to pick up passengers whom at one time rode the airlines.

We all have a good laugh at how the worst part of our job is riding the airlines to and from work. Then we fire up the apu and run max cruise blowing fuel out the back because speed and comfort is our buisness.

Not cost cutting.

 

[BSkin]

Bottom line is that if the market did not support higher oil prices, speculators would not be purchasing contracts for higher prices. If they did, and the oil was not, in fact, priced that highly, they would be stuck with overpriced contracts that would be no use and the cost would be a loss.

Speculators do not cause the price of oil to go up. The oil market causes the future price of oil to continue to be higher. - milky


So, from what you wrote there, speculators do not cause the price of oil to go up? Who do you think has the largest affect on the oil market? It's not supply and demand, it's fear that these jacka$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$es put into the market, laughing all the way to the bank in their Hummers!

 

[Freeze_gopher]

Bskin,

That's more or less true in a well regulated open market. The key is transparency. The Hunt Bros tried to corner the silver market, when other speculators saw the huge position the Hunts held they realized the price was artificially high and they dumped their holdings. The Hunts were burned to the tune of $2Billion. Thats the traditional risk to cornering the market. What happens if non traditional players with massive amounts of money enter the market? Now add in a market where there is no transparency, i.e. you can not see who holds what or who's trading with whom. You get wash sales. What if these new players, all playing the same game (a herd mentality where no one company corners the market but as a group they have), own 70% of all existing futures contracts? As they trade amongst themselves (no risk in a wash sale) they are holding these contracts out of the market( artificial limiting of supply). The true speculator (who intends to take delivery) must enter the market and bid for what is available at that time. He must his business requires it. Thats trucking companies, airlines, refineries, etc. With these daily trends he can not sit back and hope that fear of a contracts expiration will cause a drop in price. Oil in normal trading is far to liquid for that. I'll show you that supply isn't the issue, I'll show you that the weak dollar doesn't cover current price either. What have been the effects of the Commodities Modernization Act? Why does the Intercontinental exchange exist? Who trades there and why don't those investment banks etc trade on the NYMEX? Please don't throw out cheap easy stuff like it's the fault of leftists, environmentalists, or the scapegoat of politicians. Stick to the point and explain the price.

 

[BSkin]

Thanks freeze, that explains it all!

Seriously, I barely know how to manage a 401k so alot of that was over my head. I know we have a free market but when something as world-wide-dependant of a commodity as oil is manipulated on the markets by certain groups, or maybe many groups of speculators/investors, affecting millions and more selfishly, our jobs, there needs to be some sort of regulation on the trading of oil!

 

[Freeze_gopher]

Wrote that late last night and totally missed the second part of what you wrote. I deserve the sarcasm, as my comments were really more for Milky not you. My apologies.
You are correct about regulation being needed to help deal with this current mess. The ugly thing about this is that limiting speculators to their originally intended role might not be a bad idea, if you don't take delivery you can't bid.