Speculator's mocking the airlines

[Max Powers]

Hey moron, most of those pax at Netjets used to be YOUR everyday 121 pax. In fact, they used to buy first class tickets. I wonder why they choose to pay more for Netjets?

Because Your buddy George Bush lowered their tax rate to well below what it should be. Then he took away any and all government regulation which kept business fair and ethical; so that this punk could go out and spend 2.5 million for a 1/16th share in a Hawker 800 XP. NetJets growth year over year has been double digit. the Airlines which are for the common man has shrunk. Essentially the rich are fleecing the poor/middle class with the republican lobbyists laughing all the way to Netjets.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Because Your buddy George Bush lowered their tax rate to well below what it should be. Then he took away any and all government regulation which kept business fair and ethical; so that this punk could go out and spend 2.5 million for a 1/16th share in a Hawker 800 XP. NetJets growth year over year has been double digit. the Airlines which are for the common man has shrunk. Essentially the rich are fleecing the poor/middle class with the republican lobbyists laughing all the way to Netjets.

George Bush 1, terrible service 0

 

[AC560]

Treat your customers like garbage, scare away your high paying business travelers to fractional, continue to slash each others throats....

Customers aren't the problem or really how they are treated. Passenger counts are higher every year, more people are flying, airlines are growing. I flew to DFW earlier this week on AA in First and Gail was great. The problem is the business itself is fundamentally mismanaged in so many different ways.

People continually say if it weren't for fuel hedging WN wouldn't make a profit. Well obviously, that means they are effectively managing their business and returning value to their shareholders.

The airlines need to learn the only thing which matters is shareholder value. Not how many flights, hubs, pilots, etc. When you focus on the shareholder and thus the bottom line, everything else sorts itself out accordingly.

If the pilots and labor want to do something productive they should be organizing an ousting of their respective airlines boards and get somebody to come in and turn their company around. Writing letters to Congress for help isn't going to do anything for anyone. Because if we are really to believe that oil speculators are conspiring to make billions don't you think they would cover their bases with Congress as well???

 

[AC560]

Because Your buddy George Bush lowered their tax rate to well below what it should be.

So did Bill Clinton (he lowered capital gains first). And you know what tax revenues increased after both cuts.

We are in a global economy, when you raise taxes on the people who have money. They take their money and move it out of the country. With the dollar already at all time lows people are doing that. Crank the tax rate up and even more capital flows out of the market. This means less investment in America which leads to economic stagnation and reduced tax revenues (it is spiral right into a real recession).

 

[Benhuntn]

Half the speculators are sellers and half are buyers. The sellers think oil will go back down and the buyers think it will go higher. Who exactly are the bad guys?

 

[Benhuntn]

double post...

 

[Superpilot92]

Half the speculators are sellers and half are buyers. The sellers think oil will go back down and the buyers think it will go higher. Who exactly are the bad guys?

If Only it was that simple. :nuts:

 

[Otto]

You might find out that airline passengers are more willing to pay up to fly when they know it won't be a dreadful experience.

Why are you guys so wound up about this letter? These guys are clearly amateurs in understanding the airline biz as evidenced by the above statement. There is 30 years of evidence to the contrary that people will be willing to pay more for "better service". Clearly ignorant kid talk.

 

[Superpilot92]

Why are you guys so wound up about this letter? These guys are clearly amateurs in understanding the airline biz as evidenced by the above statement. There is 30 years of evidence to the contrary that people will be willing to pay more for "better service". Clearly ignorant kid talk.

I dont know what happened but i didnt write what you quoted above.

 

[blueridge71]

There are many estimates being made by observers of these markets, economists and industrial energy consumers suggesting that the price of a barrel of crude oil could be anywhere from 25 percent to 100 percent in excess of what market fundamentals would dictate. For example, (the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries) has recently said that a barrel of crude should not be in excess of $70, and it has opened its own investigation into excessive speculation in these markets to find out what interests are causing the price to be almost double that.

I have not seen any evidence that speculators are raising prices at all, other than hearsay.

The OPEC basket price for Friday (7/11) was $139.85. This is the average of what OPEC member countries charge for their oil. This is not set by speculators in any form or fashion. It is dictated by OPEC members who own their national oil supplies and sell it to oil companies. (http://www.opec.org/home/basket.aspx)

From another site (http://www.wtrg.com/daily/crudeoilprice.html), we get the futures price for West Texas intermediate crude, a bellweather oil index. The price for this oil per barrel was $145.08.

The difference between the two prices is $5.23. Some of the difference can be attributed to refining, marketing, and transportation. It leaves no room for $30-40 for speculators.

The other thing is that if some speculators were trying to drive up the price of oil artificially, there would be others who would see an opportunity to make a fast buck by undercutting the artificially high price. To believe that speculators are driving up prices, you have to believe that they have either a near monopoly on crude oil or a near total conspiracy.

Break out the tin foil hats.

 

[blueridge71]

you sir are a clown....try pulling your head out of Fox News's A$$.

I don't even get Fox News. I read the Wall St. Journal.

Try taking an ECON 101 class.

Moron.

 

[blueridge71]

Yes! Most Americans are clueless as to the size of Alaska and the size of ANWR. ANWR is the size of Washington State and the area proposed for use is the size of a college campus within Washington State. I laugh at any environmentalist that says the caribou will not have enough room to roam, it's preposterous. Secondly, ANWR lies next to the Canadian boarder, do they think the caribou only stay on the American side when they migrate thousands of miles? Asinine. Finally, I've been to ANWR and there is nothing there. Once you get North of the Brooks Range it is flat as a pancake and cold as hell....there is nothing there.

Sorry to vent but let's open up that place already. I don't believe it will do much for the price of oil but it will for Alaskas future. A future I put above the caribou migration that will never be affected.

To put it another way, ANWR is roughly the size of New England and the area that they would like to open for drilling is about the size of Dulles airport.

 

[blueridge71]

Get the HELL out of here!!!! The price does not reflect market realities in any way. There is nothing rational about any of this. The speculators are a middleman that provides no value added! Their chunk of the pie has grown to about 50% of the market price. Add value or be removed from the transaction. That is good economic policy.

PIPE

Your source for that? Harry Reid?

Here is why oil prices are increasing:

1. Rising WORLDWIDE demand
2. Declining WORLDWIDE production
3. A weak dollar

 

[Poahi]

I really don't know why this issue gets tossed about so much. I'm no expert on oil trading or economics, but I do trade stock.

When I see an opportunity to buy in to a stock or an index, it's because the fundamentals support it. That can be because of news of overall strength in the economy or something more specific like an earnings surprise. There are many more like me that do the same thing. When I buy Apple stock for example and others follow, it pushes the price of the stock up, regardless of it's earnings. That's the balance of supply and demand for the stock. If everyone were to go and buy Apple stock right now, the stock would hit the roof regardless of the company's ability to earn money. Oil works more or less the same way. The demand for oil has reached the world's ability to produce it, so now there is greater risk that the commodity won't be available. That risk gives support for higher prices. If China and India weren't willing to pay higher prices for oil, they wouldn't buy it.

The more desperate they become, the more valuable the commodity. Speculators know this and jump on the bandwagon. It is indisputable that the number of investors taking delivery of the product has reduced. To me that means that speculation has influenced prices.

How much? I'll leave that to the experts.

 

[Dan Roman]

odd this string became a corporate vs. airline flying arguement. The couple corporate guys on here seem to be pretty bitter against the airlines. Could it have anything to do with the fact that there are plenty of corporate pilots that WANTED to be airline pilots but I've never heard of an airline pilot that wished he could have gotten a corporate job? I mean what' s with the corporate guys bashing the airlines, how about to each his own? You guys come across as "I hope the airlines suffer because I have a corporate job!" The worst is the self obsorbed little tool box boasting about "flying around wasting fuel because speed and comfort are our business"