Sovereign vs. G150

[400A]

I have seen a presentation on both aircraft. The G150 cabin is 1 foot wider than the old Astra. Also remember the G150 does not have a "round" cross section, it's elipitical. The Sovereign has a traditional round cross section. So while there is only a few inches of difference across the center line, the G150 is 12" wider at the head and shoulder level and 16" wider at floor level.

The Cessna does have more length, and you can get a double club 8 pax interior, while the G150 would have 6 singles and a 2 place couch. Don't know about you guys but I usually don't see average load factors any higher than 4.

The Cessna's going to have a short field advantage, that may or may not be a big deal for your operations. But the G150 is going to be a good bit faster. From what I've seen and from speaking with one of the Gulfstream test pilots, .82 is going to be true normal cruise.

I thought the G-150's cabin while much better than the G-100, Still falls way short of its competitors. I felt far more comfortable in the Hawker and Excel. In my opinion the Soverign Blew it out of the water. Then you go to the luggage comartment. Game over in that department.

Definately the slowest in the bunch, but we do .76 most of the time in the Beechjet and it works fine.

When we evaluated the G-100's hot and high, I was not impressed at all. While a much smaller cabin, the 45XR blew it away.

 

[HMR]

When we evaluated the G-100's hot and high, I was not impressed at all. While a much smaller cabin, the 45XR blew it away.

I don't know much about the 45XR but do know alot about the G100. When you say the 45XR "blew it away" do you mean with similar pax and fuel loads? Exactly how much better is the Lear?

 

[400A]

I don't know much about the 45XR but do know alot about the G100. When you say the 45XR "blew it away" do you mean with similar pax and fuel loads? Exactly how much better is the Lear?

We compared 3 missions and all the companies ran their own profiles for me.

Marfa TX, Raton NM, and Jackson Hole WY. From all three destinations depart at 35C and non-stop to Nashville. Everyone says 35C was to hot, but we had seen it at both Marfa and Raton, so we did it from all three. (almost got stuck in the Beechjet)(just going 45 min RTN-MRF)

8 pax was the load. IFR Reserves required.

We compared 800XP, G-100, and LJ45XR.

By the companies own numbers, the 45XR was the only one that could.

 

[400A]

Hmr / Rcpa

Hey HMR,

How do I join RCPA. We were allowed to stop doing charter in November.

After 12 years in the charter business, this new 225 hour a year pace is SSWWWEEETTTT!!!!

We went from all the other pilots at are home base saying YUK!!! you guys have to fly Charter, to You guys SUCK!, do you ever have to work! Are you hiring?

Gotta Love it!

 

[HMR]

Hey HMR,

How do I join RCPA. We were allowed to stop doing charter in November.

After 12 years in the charter business, this new 225 hour a year pace is SSWWWEEETTTT!!!!

We went from all the other pilots at are home base saying YUK!!! you guys have to fly Charter, to You guys SUCK!, do you ever have to work! Are you hiring?

Gotta Love it!

LOL!

Congratulations!
Your Iron-On patch and monogramed leotard are in the mail.:beer:

 

[G100driver]

.

After 12 years in the charter business, this new 225 hour a year pace is SSWWWEEETTTT!!!!

We went from all the other pilots at are home base saying YUK!!! you guys have to fly Charter, to You guys SUCK!, do you ever have to work! Are you hiring?

Gotta Love it!

Congratulations! Life as a pilot can be GREAT. Nice to have you here!

 

[GVFlyer]

We compared 3 missions and all the companies ran their own profiles for me.

Marfa TX, Raton NM, and Jackson Hole WY. From all three destinations depart at 35C and non-stop to Nashville. Everyone says 35C was to hot, but we had seen it at both Marfa and Raton, so we did it from all three. (almost got stuck in the Beechjet)(just going 45 min RTN-MRF)

8 pax was the load. IFR Reserves required.

We compared 800XP, G-100, and LJ45XR.

By the companies own numbers, the 45XR was the only one that could.

Maybe you should talk to the pilots who fly these airplanes. The Lear 45 had a difficult entry into service and has been plagued by maintenance and reliability issues since fielding.

In my view, the Hawker is a pretty good airplane although passengers tend to like the aircraft better than do the pilots who fly them.

While I may think the G100/G150 looks like what a Martian artist might render if given a telephone description of what an Earth airplane looks like, their pilots really like them.

GV





~

 

[TXGold]

Hello everyone,
I'd first like to say how informative I think GVFlyer's posts are. You always have an interesting thing or two to say about Gulfstream products.

Currently I fly the CE-680. The main complaint I have is some of the reliability issues with the plane. Being a new model, it is bound to have some teething issues. I also think less concern about price point should have been an issue, and some of the technology out there be standard. Boosted controls should have been added. I don't see why it doesn't have Auto-throttles. I think the APU should’ve originally been able to provide electricity in the air. It would also have been nice had Cessna gone with Garmin instead of Honeywell. The units Garmin has available are light, small, and easily interchangeable. Most everyone I fly the plane with is running it at .78 to .79 around FL360 to FL400. From what I understand the plane was tested at .90 and the reason the MMO is .80 is because of a lack of boosted flight controls. The BOW on the plane I fly is ~17600lbs and with full fuel we still have ~1000lbs of cargo available. Full fuel and 1000lbs, is great for this plane if you ask me. The takeoff performance on the plane is straight forward. The baggage compartment is huge. The autopilot is great once you understand how to fly it. Once Phase 3 upgrades are available, it should have Jeppview on the DMU’s and a performance computer, plus several software problems corrected (Flight Director issues). What will be interesting is when Cessna comes out with a CE-680 second edition, with a lot of the amenities mentioned above available as standard, or even optional. I wish I had some fuel burn, speed and range scenarios available for you, but I don’tJ.

Just a personal observation, but when I read the article B&CA put out I was going thru Initial at Flight Safety. From what I remember it was behind the CE-680 except for some nice system features, and cruise speed.

Good luck with your decision, and I am sure the later serial numbers will have ironed out a lot of the problems mentioned above.

TXGold

 

[GVFlyer]

Excellent, informative post, TXGold.

GV

 

[NJAFracPilot]

While I may think the G100/G150 looks like what a Martian artist might render if given a telephone description of what an Earth airplane looks like, their pilots really like them.

GV

Too funny! I'm still laughing!

 

[LegacyDriver]

WOW. You mean someone actually sells a better product than a Gulfstream?

(I kid. It's sarcasm. *wink*)

Cruise speeds from 0.76 M-0.80 M are more than respectable in my book. There are still plenty of airplanes operating in that speed range so you don't exactly have to worry about "fitting in" to the flow, IMHO. It does suck blasting off at max weight and watching a G-IV that took off five miles in trail hurtle past you in the climb, but hey...

 

[GVFlyer]

WOW. You mean someone actually sells a better product than a Gulfstream?

I didn't say that. I just said it looks funny.

It does suck blasting off at max weight and watching a G-IV that took off five miles in trail hurtle past you in the climb, but hey...

The GV will do that to the G-IV and the G550 will do that to the GV.

GV

 

[LegacyDriver]

The GV will do that to the G-IV and the G550 will do that to the GV.

GV

DANG! That's pretty impressive. I didn't realize the V and 550 were *THAT* different on the performance side. Amazing.

 

[400A]

Maybe you should talk to the pilots who fly these airplanes. The Lear 45 had a difficult entry into service and has been plagued by maintenance and reliability issues since fielding.

In my view, the Hawker is a pretty good airplane although passengers tend to like the aircraft better than do the pilots who fly them.

While I may think the G100/G150 looks like what a Martian artist might render if given a telephone description of what an Earth airplane looks like, their pilots really like them.

GV





~

We did.

We bought the 45XR, and they have had it for almost a year know. They love the aircraft.

Most clean sheet aircradt have groing pains. While they are new, I try to avoid pre SN#-100 aircraft.

 

[White Feather]

NGT -

Real men fly Falcons!

j/k - I know you.......

Good luck with whatever you end up flying.
Gimme a call man... I'll buy the first round! :beer: