Southwest's new plan to screw Airtran pilots

[frostyboy]

And what they have ain't that great.

So every other airline must really, really suck!!

 

[PCL_128]

So every other airline must really, really suck!!

Maybe you should go take a look at DAL's Contract '01, or UAL's Contract 2000. Those were contracts to be proud of. And here, over a decade later, SWAPA is still trying to catch up. The only reason you're where you are now, close to the top of the heap in W2 earnings, is because everyone else fell down to your level in bankruptcy. You didn't accomplish anything. You just undercut everyone else and waited for them to suffer the consequences.

 

[frostyboy]

Maybe you should go take a look at DAL's Contract '01, or UAL's Contract 2000. Those were contracts to be proud of. And here, over a decade later, SWAPA is still trying to catch up. The only reason you're where you are now, close to the top of the heap in W2 earnings, is because everyone else fell down to your level in bankruptcy. You didn't accomplish anything. You just undercut everyone else and waited for them to suffer the consequences.

What is this you crap? I do not work for SWA. You are just one miserable person, huh? SWA was never a major carrier like Delta or United. They are a LCC, which is doing much better than any major airline out there. Unfortunately, the contracts of the early 2000's is a thing of the past. I see NO pilot group doing anything to fix that. Good luck with your career, seems like you do not enjoy it,

 

[SWA/FO]

Maybe you should go take a look at DAL's Contract '01, or UAL's Contract 2000. Those were contracts to be proud of. And here, over a decade later, SWAPA is still trying to catch up. The only reason you're where you are now, close to the top of the heap in W2 earnings, is because everyone else fell down to your level in bankruptcy. You didn't accomplish anything. You just undercut everyone else and waited for them to suffer the consequences.

And that is exactly why you went to work for AirTran... sorry little man. :cartman:

 

[OakRBust]

PCL...

This place definitely isn't Disneyland...... That being said....

No strike vote, no bankruptcies, pretty nice checks on the fifth and twentieth, and generally a mostly very happy pilot group. Is everything perfect???? Nope. Did you guys get hosed???? Yup!!! Did a lot of our guys get hosed??? You bet! When it is all said and done I really believe we will all be better off because of this acqumergerintegration. I hope someday we can friggin kill this dead horse and get back to banging on the private and his wife OYS.

Flame away PCL... I also can't wait for post 17000 about my 6 leg trip to Lubbock tomorrow... Yeeee Haaaaawwwwww!

 

[PCL_128]

Did you guys get hosed???? Yup!!!

OakRBust, I think you may be the only SWA pilot on here who's had the balls and integrity to admit that. Thank you. You're good sh&*.

 

[Lear70]

OakRBust, I think you may be the only SWA pilot on here who's had the balls and integrity to admit that. Thank you. You're good sh&*.

There've been a few that have acknowledged that we got much worse than what an arbitrator would have likely considered "fair". I appreciate those folks acknowledging that, and have likewise acknowledged that there may be pilots at Southwest who are suffering too. Doesn't mean we agree on everything or even the nuances of each others' situations, but being able to see the harm long enough to say, "Sorry, but yeah it sucks for you" merits respect.

That's as much as I'm really able to do at this point as well. I'm at the "acceptance" stage of grief. I've fully vetted what I've lost, year by year, assuming certain growth percentages, bases, quality of life over there per the most recent bid packs, etc., what I eventually benefit from it years from now, and I've come to terms with it for the most part.

Maybe someday I'll move into the "embracing" stage, where I actually enjoy and appreciate the new situation. Until then, the people on this forum who can put their egos aside long enough to take an honest look at it like OAK and others are definitely on my beer-buying list on the overnight. :beer:

 

[Quimby]

Maybe you should go take a look at DAL's Contract '01, or UAL's Contract 2000. Those were contracts to be proud of. And here, over a decade later, SWAPA is still trying to catch up. The only reason you're where you are now, close to the top of the heap in W2 earnings, is because everyone else fell down to your level in bankruptcy. You didn't accomplish anything. You just undercut everyone else and waited for them to suffer the consequences.

Were those contracts sustainable?

 

[PCL_128]

Were those contracts sustainable?

Not with a bunch of corndogs flying the same planes for 60% of the pay, no.

 

[Lear70]

Oh sh*t. He used the "C" word. LoL

Here we go...

 

[JT12345]

I don't know who are the bigger idiots. The OP or the 7 pages of I have no idea responses that came after it.

 

[PCL_128]

Oh sh*t. He used the "C" word. LoL

Here we go...

I still have a lot to learn from the General, though. I forgot to mention Lubbock.

 

[K-Mart]

Not with a bunch of corndogs flying the same planes for 60% of the pay, no.

What was the pay at AirTran like?

 

[General Lee]

I still have a lot to learn from the General, though. I forgot to mention Lubbock.

You are learning grasshopper, you are learning. Make sure you also mention Midland Odessa and Amarillo. Those three are the trifecta of pure boredom, and Redflyer's favorites. At those airports, he's finally a "heavy."


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Crash Pad]

Not with a bunch of corndogs flying the same planes for 60% of the pay, no.

Go on. Tell us about Gulfstream, Pinnacle, and AirTran. You found a way to be 60 percent below regional pay at Gulfstream. Then you put the screws to the majors flying an RJ. Then you went to AAI who undercut Delta in Atlanta with wages that really suck.

Then you have the balls to call SWA the problem. We have all sinned but most of us know we have sinned.

 

[Quimby]

Not with a bunch of corndogs flying the same planes for 60% of the pay, no.

You have an interesting take on history.

 

[canyonblue]

Go on. Tell us about Gulfstream, Pinnacle, and AirTran. You found a way to be 60 percent below regional pay at Gulfstream. Then you put the screws to the majors flying an RJ. Then you went to AAI who undercut Delta in Atlanta with wages that really suck.

Then you have the balls to call SWA the problem. We have all sinned but most of us know we have sinned.

I'll wait for the response on this one. :laugh: :beer:

 

[PCL_128]

Go on. Tell us about Gulfstream, Pinnacle, and AirTran. You found a way to be 60 percent below regional pay at Gulfstream. Then you put the screws to the majors flying an RJ. Then you went to AAI who undercut Delta in Atlanta with wages that really suck.

Then you have the balls to call SWA the problem. We have all sinned but most of us know we have sinned.

On Gulfstream, you're absolutely right. Stupid decision, but I didn't know any better at the time.

As far as Pinnacle, no regional pilot is "putting the screws to the majors flying an RJ." Legacy pilots have given away that flying in their contract negotiations in exchange for pay, work rules, retirement, or whatever else they've felt was more important than scope. No RJ pilot should ever be blamed for mainline outsourcing. As far as Pinnacle's pay, it was industry standard when I was hired. And for AirTran, again, industry standard pay at the time I was hired.

 

[scoreboardII]

On Gulfstream, you're absolutely right. Stupid decision, but I didn't know any better at the time.

As far as Pinnacle, no regional pilot is "putting the screws to the majors flying an RJ." Legacy pilots have given away that flying in their contract negotiations in exchange for pay, work rules, retirement, or whatever else they've felt was more important than scope. No RJ pilot should ever be blamed for mainline outsourcing. As far as Pinnacle's pay, it was industry standard when I was hired. And for AirTran, again, industry standard pay at the time I was hired.

Oh no Ami, you are flying for the B scale at the RJ level unless those RJ's are owned by the mainline. Checkout Jetblue, highest RJ pay, they own the jets.

 

[madjack]

"That's as much as I'm really able to do at this point as well. I'm at the "acceptance" stage of grief. I've fully vetted what I've lost, year by year, assuming certain growth percentages, bases, quality of life over there per the most recent bid packs, etc., what I eventually benefit from it years from now, and I've come to terms with it for the most part."

Oh boo hoo...your boss put you up for sale, you were willing to strike at AAI and take the company down in 2009, you turned down SL9 (pay, domicile, seats) and then blinked at GK's "threat"...now poor Lear HAS A F'in job at SWA, the last job he will ever have to get...such a horrible tragedy! Get over it!

 

[PCL_128]

Oh no Ami, you are flying for the B scale at the RJ level unless those RJ's are owned by the mainline. Checkout Jetblue, highest RJ pay, they own the jets.

Is this English? I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

 

[Lear70]

"That's as much as I'm really able to do at this point as well. I'm at the "acceptance" stage of grief. I've fully vetted what I've lost, year by year, assuming certain growth percentages, bases, quality of life over there per the most recent bid packs, etc., what I eventually benefit from it years from now, and I've come to terms with it for the most part."

Oh boo hoo...your boss put you up for sale, you were willing to strike at AAI and take the company down in 2009, you turned down SL9 (pay, domicile, seats) and then blinked at GK's "threat"...now poor Lear HAS A F'in job at SWA, the last job he will ever have to get...such a horrible tragedy! Get over it!

I WOULD say we'll see how YOU like it when you're going from having your pick of senior lines with 18 days off with upgrade less than 2 years away to looking at going back on reserve or commuting 5+ hours to be a bottom line holder, flying twice as much with people who cluelessly think "you won the lottery", and upgrade close to 60, but Gary's got your back, so I guess that'll never happen.

Here's a news flash, genius: we were NEVER going to have to strike. The company would have given in and we'd have found a middle ground at the 11th hour. It's just what happens when you have a profitable company and you're asking for a compensation package that's WELL within the company's financials. So every time you guys bring up our strike vote like it's important or germaine to this situation, we all just roll our eyes and laugh at you.

I'm looking at equal money when I get there (would have upgraded by the end of the transition at a stand-alone AAI) with crap quality of life for the next 5-7 years while sitting in the right seat for the next decade and a half. How else do I have to spell it out for you? Were you dropped on your head as a child?

Why don't YOU get over the FACT that not all of us are overjoyed because of the way we got steamrolled by your management team for YOUR benefit, so it's going to TAKE A WHILE before we "get over it".

If you don't like what I write, don't read it. Put me on your ignore list and then you don't have to listen to it. Mkay?

Like I said, those of you who took the time to really try to understand our position, per my previous post, thank you.

It's not going to all be magically OK overnight, DEAL with the fact that people are going to speak up when you say inflammatory, offensive, or erroneous things.

/rant

 

[texman]

WE all have choices SWA is not the only flying job out there.

 

[Lear70]

WE all have choices SWA is not the only flying job out there.

Unfortunately, thanks to Kolski and Klaus, I don't have alternatives that generate comparable career earnings and eventual Quality of Life.

You're stuck with me.

That said, as long as people don't say retarded things like "Get over it" and make assinine statements about our strike vote, like that had anything to do with the SLI results or the cost of tea in China or anything else, I'm slowly coming to terms with it, which was the point of my post until Captain America had to be an a$$ about it.

Most of the rest of our pilots are the same way. We'll get there, and those of you who are being cool about it are helping.

 

[SWA/FO]

On Gulfstream, you're absolutely right. Stupid decision, but I didn't know any better at the time.

As far as Pinnacle, no regional pilot is "putting the screws to the majors flying an RJ." Legacy pilots have given away that flying in their contract negotiations in exchange for pay, work rules, retirement, or whatever else they've felt was more important than scope. No RJ pilot should ever be blamed for mainline outsourcing. As far as Pinnacle's pay, it was industry standard when I was hired. And for AirTran, again, industry standard pay at the time I was hired.

BUT! SWAPA has NO DOMESTIC codeshare in their contract. The only MAJOR Airline to have that. That is awesome, I thought you were a Union man. Where is the props for that? Plus, only one international code-share partner allowed - Volaris
__________________

 

[PCL_128]

BUT! SWAPA has NO DOMESTIC codeshare in their contract. The only MAJOR Airline to have that. That is awesome, I thought you were a Union man. Where is the props for that? Plus, only one international code-share partner allowed - Volaris
__________________

I do give you "props" for that. Of course, it hasn't really been a fight to hold on to it yet. If you still hold on to it when management makes it a cornerstone issue on their end of the negotiations, then I'll be impressed.

 

[Flyer1015]

This is the exact reason you knew any merger with SW wouldn't go well. A combination of..

A more senior pilot group.
Non~ ALPA carrier
and large differences in QOL and yes..PAY.


But instead of taking the first deal, you basically tried to stonewall for arbitration while telling your members that the SW pay would be coming anyway. Horrible decision.

Was this the reason for recall?

 

[madjack]

Hey Lear,

GET OVER IT!

 

[madjack]

"Why don't YOU get over the FACT that not all of us are overjoyed because of the way we got steamrolled by your management team for YOUR benefit, so it's going to TAKE A WHILE before we "get over it".

NEWSFLASH: Hey "Genius" we get the fact you wanted more of our seniority as well as pay/benefits...that was all going to come at the expense of RSW pilots...no you didn't get a slam dunk but if you had gotten all you wanted it would have been a huge windfall for you at the RSW pilot's expense...I don't feel bad for you and you should GET OVER IT...

 

[Monster Buck]

Delta is the king of outsourcing. To try and compare SW to that operation is laughable.

The other funny part is PCL acts like SWAPA are bumbling idiots. When it's been ALPA over all these years that has allowed outsourcing and B-scales. SWAPA has long held the line when ALPA hasn't.

Your such a hypocrite. Knowing where you came from and now your the bucking rep for the anti outsourcing? Convenient for you to slam the "king of outsourcing(Delta/NWA) " you sucked off. Now at SWA you are the holier than thou anti "outsourcing" guy. What a joke. But hey "southwest would never do that"! Do as I say not as I did?